Tuesday, 24 November 2015

Religious Intolerance 'PBCC Style'

A well written piece sent to me by an ex-HEB friend:


If you want religious intolerance - then look no further than the Plymouth Brethren 'Christian Church.' This cult won't cut your throat like more extreme examples - but you'll probably end up wishing that they had.  


I am astonished that organisations like the Plymouth Brethren 'Christian' Church are allowed to exist in this day and age. At the end of the day they are like some sort of awful reminder of the fascist regimes that the world has been trying to stamp out for more than 100 years or more.  Like so many evil places on earth (which are becoming lesser in number by the year, due to mounting and persistent public outrage) they seek to control the minds of others - and all in the name of their brand of so called Christianity. In reality there is very little that is Christian about them. 


The Exclusive Brethren, as they were known, before they got clever with PR gymnastics to confuse an inquiring world, were probably quite OK up until that fateful day in 1959 when the most life changing of their leaders decided that they were 'no longer of this world.'  It was then that they slammed shut the doors on their meeting halls to 'normal' (evil) people and withdrew from what they term - the evil that is the world. But worse was to come if that was not awful enough for some


Thousands of people had their lives wrecked at this point as they were forced to turn their backs on their families who were not Exclusive Brethren - being directed to have nothing whatsoever to do with them again - or lose their own families in the church if they didn't. For many - it was one order too far - and those that still dallied with the idea of seeing their relatives covertly, were spied upon and then thrown out. Into the outer darkness. 


This is a world where the words of their leaders -or Great Men' as they like to call them - are meticulously recorded and brought out as ministry. It is mandatory to buy each and every one. Their bookshelves groan with the weight of millions of utterances and meetings by these Chosen Men dating back to the early 1800's. It seems that books and religion go hand in hand - not content with the Bible as a guiding force, it rarely gets a look in with the Brethren today, as they are required to be up to date with the latest from the ministry that is doled out to them for a price. Not dissimilar to the Scientologists who have a pre-occupation with selling books to their converts as well. Not just a few, but thousands of dollars worth of them.  


Rumours abound at the moment, that a portion of these books are being recalled - to be destroyed and perhaps replaced with heavily edited replacement versions. Jim Taylor Junior who took over as man of God from his father in the 1950's, was a charismatic New Yorker who went somewhat off the rails later in his life before his 70th birthday. He had long had a liking for Whisky which flew in the face of one of the tenets of the Brethren if taken to excess. His ministry became weirdly more free range- even his language -where he calledthe Brethren bums, bastards and sons of bitches in the church. The Brethren laughed somewhat nervously - perhaps at the apparent relaxation of strict behaviours more than the wild insults themselves


Like all Men of God - he died. But not before a scandal in Aberdeen Scotland, where he was taking meetings yet again.He was caught in bed with his host's wife and his excuse was that he was ambushing some whom he believed had doubted him. The effect was calamitous. Those close to the 'event' who saw it for what it was, walked away from the Brethren or were thrown out as traitors. Those that doubted Taylor's actions were cast as evil and shown the door - with or without their families. Those that lived far from Aberdeen in other parts of the world were dealt a greatly watered down version of the facts and told to ignore the evil of the men present in Aberdeen who would doubt the great man. 


Within months a new Man of God had jostled his way forward of the others to take over. His opponents were immediately either thrown out or relegated to much lesser standing within the organisation. This time it was different, for this was a supposedly humble farmer from the wilds of the prairies of North Dakota. A man who disliked people with further education. He jumped down from his John Deere, hitched up his coveralls and told them to 'piss on their degrees.'  


Having lived in a humble farmhouse all of his life - he too decided to radically change the lives of the Brethren. He disliked rich people or those that lived  a grander personal lifestyle than his. He made a global directive that all of the Brethren were to sell their homes and go to the 'plain country' or poorer suburbs of their respective cities. In some parts of the world this was a seemingly strange and unpalatable instruction. As an Australian I watched on with fascination at this almighty comedown for many.  In places like Melbourne and Sydney - and everywhere else in the world -they left and sold up like lemmings and followed the master's instructions, settling in some fairly ghastly places.  But he was cunning this Dakotan farmer - he knew they would now be cashed up and a fair chunk of it would end up in his pocket. All men of God  get monthly 'gifts' which they can then apply to their own lifestyle. Jim Symington applied his to his farm which doubled in size in a matter of a few years. 


Perhaps the cruellest thing that Symington did was to stop all further education. High school was as far as any member of the Brethren could go. A surprising directive given that there had been many academically distinguished people among them up until that point. Sadly this rule stood firm for forty years and only now are their young allowed to do college education by correspondence or alternate means. They are still strictly forbidden to attend an actual university campus as they are told they are cesspits of social reform. And when they have an education - they MUST work for Brethren businesses. Where once they were able to provide teachers and lawyers and doctors for their congregations- now they were utterly reliant on such skills from 'worldly people. This of course is highly unpalatable to members of the Brethren - but necessary. So they will have something 'to do with the world' when they need it or it suits them. His other consistent hate was anything to do with technology (unless it was a new harvester) and everything from mobile phones to automatic garage door openers were tools of the devil and banned.


Symington of course, having grown his landholding and fortunes dramatically, finally died. And the jostling for leadership commenced yet again with a victor and the hapless vanquished - who were thrown out. The ritual is not unlike the dominant male of any species - there is the fight  for top dog and the others are sent scurrying with a bite out of their arses to inhabit another part of the world - away from their natural herd.  


This time it was an Australian with a shady past who got the gig. His shadiness came from his expulsion from the sect three times before - once under Taylor and twice under Symington. His first journey to the dark side was for trying to introduce -with his brother Bruce- a commercial system into the Brethren, where they could not only learn of the fiscal status of all their fellow Brethren, but get in on the direction of the 'action' as well. They would make members stand up in the church and demanded to know what they earned and what they spent their money on in the mid 1960's. Of course Taylor found out and invoked the story of the money changers being thrown out of the temple. He got points for that as Bruce Hales was his son in law. 


Several months of apologies and cringing letters to the 'saints' he had wronged allowed the new Man of God -John Hales to return to the fold. But he was not a man to spend his life in the third row with the power challenged lightweights of the Brethren.  He wanted his old job back as the Australian leader and when Symington took his last gasp in North Dakota - Hales was in like Flynn and somehow got his tail into Symington's warm seat. His tenure as Man of God was perhaps not as remarkable as his predecessors, but he was determined that the House of Hales would hold the position for at least a generation after him and made sure his son was slotted into the top position as he too took his last gasp. Hales Senior will be remembered for his utter tenacity at remaining a member of the Brethren and for fighting his way back to the top job.  


This latest leader of the Brethren is a completely different kettle of fish. Everything he has done has flown in the face of his old mentor Symington. And his own father too -to some degree.  This Hales- Bruce (Junior) is a capitalist of the first order. A builder of empires. Mainly his own. He flies the world in private jets, drives a top of the range Audi and lives in a multi -million dollar mansion with big fences and gates to keep the world out. Just like their churches which are surrounded by eight foot high metal fences and padlocked gates. And security guards when someone important arrives. Like him. 


Hales Junior has singlehandedly introduced a global business system which he controls with a tight fist - milking every cent from not only his congregation - but governments and tax payers as well around the world. He finished the job of getting all their kids out of public schools - and into a controlled Brethren learning environment where many things like alternative religious studies, sex and evolution are never even hinted at. 


He also - realised that computers and mobile phones might have been tools of the devil at one point - even calling the internet a 'pipeline of filth' - but he all but forced the Brethren as a 'church' and his fellow business men to get into it full bore. Now their businesses have some of the best websites you will ever see. Television which was long reviled by the Brethren -and is not allowed to this day - are quite fine however to advertise their Brethren products on. 


He also did something that no man before him would dared to have done as they believed in the power of God when things were hitting the fan. He got a worldly firm of spin doctors involved in working on the image of the Brethren and they came up with all manner of weird and wonderful things to confuse the 'world' on who they were really dealing with - cult wise. The number of families that were wrecked over any of these issues beforehand did not matter a toss to Hales. He was on a roll. He even sold the brethren his heavily doctored mobile phones and computers at hugely inflated prices. He developed up a  website for the Church ,with them happily running on beaches and playing sports. Twenty years ago you were thrown out for much less. The new double standard was frightening.


Several who had been badly treated by this mob winced a bit at that. Not only the hypocrisy of it but the sheer gall. It akin to telling a Roman Catholic that Mary is optional and birth control has always been perfectly fine. 


But then they got really clever - spending tens of millions on lobbying to Governments and commissioners who were looking at their charitable status a little more closely. They had after all - received exemptions on their meeting halls as places of public worship when in fact - no member of the public had been allowed in one -uninvited - for five decades. Even now - if a non-Brethren person wanted to go to their church, you have to go before a panel of their priests and they ascertain if you are a suitable person and then - they will only let you attend a preaching session. No communion or any other of their meetings. Which is why practically no one takes up the challenge. 


They also receive tens of millions of taxpayer funds annually for their schools where no other child apart from Brethren children are allowed to attend. And - they were banned from giving to any charity since 1959. Hales realised that they needed to stop being just a weird cult shrinking from the evil world and pretend to be leaders of industry and good fortune for the countries in which they lived. So they campaigned for political parties in the hope that this would bring them rewards as well. They raved on about how much tax they pay. Despite - it must be said that they are banned from voting themselves due to their belief that our political leaders arechosen by God and not men. It that were true- think of the billions that could be applied to other things worldwide!  


For the moment - their lobbying has paid dividends, as blinded commissioners and government officials have failed to bear witness to the stories of sadness and loss globally at the hands of these people. They of course see this as a victory over the world. But the thousands of people who no longer have a family or a heritage or friends or a decent life - whom they dealt with wrongly or cruelly know better and shake their heads in dismay.


It seems money will buy you everything. Especially as the Brethren are great at taking other people's inheritances for their own use as a directive from the great man himself.


So - as I say - it amazes me that this bunch of so called Christians are allowed to be as unchristian as is humanly possible. They throw men out for the silliest of reasons - men who want to stay there because that is where their families are - and make damn sure they never see them again. Children are poisoned against fathers and threatened with the same dire consequences that are part of the ISIS mantra funnily enough. 


And you get this weird bunch of controlled people who are told how to dress, how to wear their hair, how to work, how to learn and how to earn a living. And when to go to church which is daily. They are not even allowed to develop special friendships with their fellow Brethren as this is a dangerous thing that is 'of the devil'. Want to stand around and have a chat with your fellow 'inmates' after church? No chance. Get home and get reading more ministry. Fill your head with their propaganda. Especially with what the current man of god is saying. (They even have a book of rules - all quotes from the great man - which outlines every possible action right down to sideburns and the colour of your shirt.)


Sadly, being human, even though they are 'not part of the world' they have their share of evil bastards. They have their paedophiles and their thieves and their fornicators. But they deal with them lightly. Someone who has lead a blameless life but mentioned at a time when it was not allowed, that they would like a computer for their business for example-  is dealt with far more determinedly than a paedophile. For that a man would be thrown out, lose his wife and kids, they would take his business and every penny they could get out of him. Being prolific breeders (what else is there to do) the child support is considerable. So they'll take his money - but they will tell his kids he is evil and to spurn him like you would a rabid dog.  Many have gone as far as to take their own lives. They arrive in a world which is utterly foreign to them with no job and no friends. The young fare a little better, although there are some who preferred to end it all at their own hands. 


So when we look at ISIS and Scientology and other weird and wonderful so called cults and 'churches', with acquired disdain for their brainwashing and cruel judgements dealt out to those under them in their regimes of control and hatred, they are not a world apart from seemingly innocuous outfits like the Plymouth Brethren 'Christian' church. Because they destroy people too while trying to appear 'normal' when they are anything but that. 


The question is - when will those in the world that can and should - look a bit closer at these people? When will someone -perhaps one who is considering their pleas for tax exemptions and schools funding - sit up and take some action, bringing into scrutiny their lack of decency,  morality and human decency? Today the world screams against those who are racially or religiously intolerant. Well if ever there was a blatantly religious intolerant group in this world, it is the Plymouth Brethren 'Christian' Church. They cut their own off if they don't toe their whimsical changing lines of control and treat them as dead. Worse- they tell everyone else in their congregation to do the same or they will be thrown out too.     


  1. Slight correction required. 'He was caught in bed with his host's wife' Should read he was caught by his host and S McC in bed with the wife of Harrow based peeb Alan Ker.

  2. The contemorary account was that Alan Ker led his wife to Taylor's bedroom; or, to put it more crudely, acted as a pimp.

    Primary Source

  3. I stand corrected. Sadly I was fed the incorrect watered down version about him being ambushed by evil men. Either way - the guy was in bed with another man's wife! While being a spiritual leader. So much for the integrity of their chosen leaders.

  4. So what.. proves nothing

    1. Please think before tapping your keyboard!
      Is it normal, usual, acceptable conduct for a married man to be found in bed with another man's wife who on her own testimony was unclothed at the time?
      Are you so brainwashed that the so-called man of God can do whatever he wishes without his conduct coming into question?

    2. "Are you so brainwashed that the so-called man of God can do whatever he wishes without his conduct coming into question?"

      I'll answer for him (no chance that "Anonymous 25 November 2015 at 10.00" is a female): yes, he is. I have little doubt that if BDH told him to kill himself, he would do it. Correct "Anonymous 25 November 2015 at 10:00"?

    3. The above comment by 25 Nov 10.00 demonstrates the dangerous lack of morality and the "anything goes" mindset of the cult adherent.

      It was in that spirit that the ultra extremists of the normally extreme EB (PBCC) joyfully accepted alcohol and drunken behaviour into their lives, following the lead of alcoholic, former leader, Taylor Jnr. Not to mention the pathway to separaton, and so on.

      Just as the Exclusive Brethren (PBCC) are an extreme and cancerous offshoot of the "Plymouth" Brethren movement, the Seventh Day Adventist Church (numbered in millions rather than the thousands of the EB (PBCC) spawned David Koresh and the Branch Davidians of Waco.

      Whatever one's views of the Seventh Day Adventists, it is no wonder Church leaders were horrified to be seen as the roots of Waco. In the same way, the Brethren movment must be embarrassed and horrified at what has warped into the Exclusive Brethren (PBCC) of today.


  5. How can you compare ISIS to the PBCC?
    lSIS has one aim - The destruction of Israel and Christianity. Once the PBCC have gone (the pure bride of Christ) be left in no doubt that the hour of trial itself (a great horror) will be unleashed on the earth. Men will claim peace and safety, but it will end in destruction amongst nations.
    There are some here who claim Christ, but he will say to them, I never knew you.

    Better get those suds out and start washing robes.

    1. Dear anon 25th Nov 10:19

      You speak in defence of the PBCC v ISIS.

      Please explain how the PBCC can be the (pure bride of Christ) !!!, when you have also claimed to press and authorities in the UK over the last 4 years to be a “mainstream Christian church” ?

      Please explain how the PBCC can be the (pure bride of Christ) !!!, when you ignore, disobey and disrespect Gods rights & claims in the Holy Bible, on -

      - the Body of Christ, because they separate from all other Christians in the Body of Christ
      - eating & drinking, because they refuse to do so with any other Christians
      - appointment & qualifications for elders, because they don’t have any
      - the Bride of Christ & Church of Christ, because they separate from it & every other Christian in it
      - warnings against sectarianism, because they are deeply sectarian & divisive
      - warnings against putting the word of ‘men’ above the word of God, because they follow ‘men’
      - warnings against separating husband & wife, because they practice & enforce such division
      - the ‘whosoever’ in John 3,16, because they say if you leave the group your not Christian
      - accepting other Christians, because they withdraw from & separate from all other Christians
      - church discipline, because they abuse, misuse & twist it to suit their sectarian agenda
      - warnings against misrepresenting the Gospel, because they do exactly that
      - warnings against deceit, falsehoods, doublemindedness & lies, because they practice all that
      - instructions for fellowship, communion & worship with other Christians, because they don’t
      - recognising the work of God in other Christians, because they separate from all other Christians
      - individual Christian conscience, because its not allowed as members must obey ‘mens ideas’
      - freedom of the Holy Spirit, because they teach the Holy Spirit is only with them
      - marriage to other Christians, because they teach that persons can not marry outside the group
      - dealing with evil, immorality, alcoholism, because all these are tolerated (condoned in JT Junior)
      - accepting the work of God in all Christians, because they separate from all other Christians under a doctrine of ‘Separation from Evil’, which by default denigrates the work of God in all other Christians

      Dear Anon,

      The ‘Only’ place where Christians can verify if teachings are supported by God’s Word, is the Bible, and God can not contradict Himself (Hebrews 6:17–18, Num. 23:19).

      Irrespective of persons claiming otherwise - if teachings (such as those above) contradict the Bible, or disobey the Bible, or ignore the Bible, they ‘Cannot’ be from God. Putting God’s name to such contradictory false teaching is heretical, blasphemous & not of the Christian faith.

      Dear Anon,

      The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church (aka Exclusive Brethren) separate from ‘Every non-member’. This is irrespective of faith, church, background, wealth, Christian or non Christian, moral or immoral, etc.

      This indiscriminate blanket separation from ‘everyone else’ shows no discernment, or thought, or guidance from the Holy Spirit at all and is not taught by Gods Word which is the Bible.

      Your ‘separation’ in the manner you practice it, is nothing but deep ugly sectarianism, which is hated by God (read the Bible and you will learn that).

      Dear Anon,

      So to whom do you ‘separate’ to ?

      It isn’t to Christ, or God, or Jesus, because they never taught the separation you practice. Separating from other Christians accepted by Christ & part of the Body of Christ, and in the process declaring all Christians outside of your group as ‘iniquitous’ ‘unfit for fellowship’ etc, is abhorrent to God !

      So you ‘separate’ to your leader, or leaders past, and ignore, disobey & disrespect vast swathes of Gods Word the Bible, which isn’t a Biblical Christian position at all & certainly isn’t the “pure bride of Christ” !

      Looking at these facts, it is no wonder the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church aka Exclusive Brethren have often been called the “Tailban of the Christian faith”

  6. Let me say (following the correction made above) that the account describes the situation 100% perfectly - before someone says "I can sum up this post about the PBCC as nonsensical waffle laced with poison". Sorry folks, that's just the way it is!

  7. It seems we have Brethren among us. Yes you might think that comparing ISIS to the PBCC is a long shot and in some ways it is. But consider this my little Peeblet friend before you judge such a comparison as being right out of order:
    1. They both subject their converts to their line of teaching - or else,
    2. They both threaten hellfire if you don't conform,
    3. They both hate the 'world',
    4. They both suppress women to being ruled or dominated by somebody - with no active verbal participation in the dissemination of the main ministry,
    5. They both tell you how to dress,
    6. They both fleece their flocks for money,
    7. They both loathe mankind - except for their own type,
    8. They both teach their young their own version of education with the bits they don't want them to know eliminated,
    How's that for starters.
    Obviously debate and free thought are not taught in the Brethren schools anymore. Funny - they scrubbed it out in extreme Moslem education centres and mosques too. It's our way or the highway is the general idea.

    1. Regarding ISIS and the Exclusives (PBCC) I was struck how the description of the former by MPs during the debate on taking action in Syria could equally apply to the PBCC. Such comments related to despisal of outsiders, contempt for democracy and the rule of law, regarding outsiders as apostate, and so on. There is a difference, however, in that ISIS do not pretend to be anything other than the awful people they are, whereas the PBCC dupe the authorities into pretending to be an inclusive mainstream church of benefit to the public.

  8. The most intolerant religions, like the most intolerant political ideologies, have a practical reason for being intolerant. They are fragile, so their survival depends on cutting off, suppressing or killing off all sources of disagreement. In other words, their survival depends on intolerance, whereas genuinely beneficial or truth-based religions will survive without any intolerance.

    The fragility of these intolerant ideologies arises from the fact that they are harmful to their adherents and are wildly irrational, founded on falsehoods and deception, so if their adherents manage to discover the more benign, more truthful and more rational alternatives, they will be gone as soon as they can plan their escape.

    So intolerance is not only an evil in itself; it is usually a sign of even greater evils hidden behind it.

  9. Wrong again Ian
    Go back to school if you don't understand context.
    Intolerance to evil is right
    Separation from evil is right.
    Let's also be clear -There is one truth and that is faith in Christ.
    Therefore there is no such thing as " truth based religions"
    Yet another politically correct and false notion
    which is why we stay away from such wickedness being taught as fact.
    You evidently have lost your way like so many of those who have turned away from the truth and the light God gave you has turned into darkness.

    1. To a very limited extent I agree with you, Anonymous of 27 Nov. at 15:03

      You say intolerance of evil is right. So it is, you are right, but that is quite different from the intolerance that the article starting this thread is all about. The article is about intolerance of anyone who does not bow to whatever happens to be the latest version of the whimsical and changeable system of Exclusive Brethrenism. That is not intolerance of evil. That is plain bigotry and sectarianism, which is in itself a great evil. That is intolerance of the rest of the human race, or whoever is not one of “us”. It is the same kind of intolerance that motivates hundreds of self-satisfied factions, including the Taliban and the so-called Islamic State, and has no more validity or justification than they have.

      You say separation from evil is right. So it is, and it is practised by all decent people. But often the Brethren signally fail to practise it, as in 1970, to take a particularly blatant example. What the Brethren actually practise is separation from anyone who doesn’t bow to their arbitrary and unchristian dictates. More often than not, that amounts of separation from goodness, not separation from evil, and in itself it constitutes a very great evil. Look how harmful it is. Look how unscriptural it is. Look how irrational it is. Look how unchristian it is. Gal and Rev have spelled this out in enough detail already.

      You say, “There is one truth and that is faith in Christ.” What about faith in B. D. Hales and his predecessors? Is that truth? Among the Brethren I see massive evidence of that latter kind of faith, often accompanied by pitiful neglect or denial of many of the principles and values that Christ stands for.

      You say there is no such thing as truth based religions. Well, at least there are churches and variants of religion that are not dependent on falsehood, deception and delusion, and are entirely compatible and comfortable with the God-given knowledge and insights that physicists, chemists, historians, archaeologists, astronomers, psychologists, geneticists, biologists, anthropologists, linguists and biblical scholars have laboured to provide us with. These are at least worthy of respect.

    2. Anon 27th Nov 15:03

      I am very interested in your comment “Intolerance to evil is right, Separation from evil is right”

      Plymouth Brethren Christian Church aka Exclusive Brethren separate from ‘Every non-member’. This is irrespective of faith, church, background, wealth, Christian or non Christian, moral or immoral, etc.

      This indiscriminate blanket separation from ‘everyone else’ shows no discernment, or thought, or guidance from the Holy Spirit at all and is not taught by Gods Word which is the Bible.

      This type of intolerance and separation has nothing to do with intolerance and separation from ‘evil’ !!

      To put your claim of “Intolerance to evil is right, Separation from evil is right” into perspective - Plymouth Brethren Christian Church aka Exclusive Brethren separate from ‘Every’ other Christian and Christian Church, you are therefore by default saying that all those millions of Christians ‘outside’ the PBCC Exclusive Brethren are ‘Evil’ !!!

      (Did you explain this fact to the UK Charity Commission ?)

      Your ‘separation’ in the manner you practice it, is nothing but deep ugly sectarianism, which is hated by God (read the Bible and you will learn that).

  10. A couple of quotes from a couple of different posts up above and a couple of questions--

    "Go back to school if you don't understand context."
    "Better get those suds out and start washing robes."

    -- I wonder if the authors of the above referenced comments can help me put the following verse in context so I can understand it? How does one wash his robes, which "city" is meant and what does "gates" mean in the verse from Revelation?
    Oh, do I correctly assume that this is the verse that prompted the comment about suds and robe washing?

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city.

    Maybe we can help Ian find his way again, surely that would be the Christian thing to do.

    1 2 Mini

  11. Another contextual puzzle for 15:03--

    A quote, and a question--

    "You evidently have lost your way like so many of those who have turned away from the truth and the light God gave you has turned into darkness"

    Were you thinking of the following verses?

    Mat 6:22 The lamp of the body is the eye; if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body will be light:
    Mat 6:23 but if thine eye be wicked, thy whole body will be dark. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great the darkness!

    If so, I don't see anything in it about light becoming darkness, but perhaps that is what it says, or perhaps you are referring to some other verse. In any case, can you put this in context for me and help me understand what it means?

    Hopefully we can work together to snatch Ian from the fire.

    1 2 Mini

    1. It may help to look at the original koiné Greek of 2 Timothy 2:19, which is the PBCC's 'charter verse'. There the requirement is to withdraw from 'iniquity', in the Greek 'adikia', which means illegal and unjust acts.

      I often wonder whether these Exclusive Brethren have studied the Gospels' record of the trial and execution of Jesus. It's instructive and intensely moving to read how he conducted himself and to discover what he said in his extremity.

      In his ministry before his death, Jesus had built on his traditions' scriptures and prioritised love of God and love of neighbour. In the context of a discussion about this he once told a memorable story featuring a Samaritan who was a neighbour, although the Samaritans belonged to another sect than Jerusalemite Judaism. Supremely, Jesus exemplified love of God and love of neighbour when he was crucified.

      The apostle Paul took all this on board and wrote that he would show his readers "a still more excellent [than spiritual gifts] way. If I speak with the tongues of mortals and of angels, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal .... And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love." (1 Corinthians 12:31 - 13:13)

      Of course, separate from illegal and unjust acts; but also love your neighbour as yourself because love is greater even than faith and hope. Love is durable. In St Paul's words, "Love never ends." (1 Corinthians 13:8)

    2. Yes Joan, and the Darby French Bible has the marginal note "injustice" in place of iniquity. So Darby or his editors were aware of the alternate reading.

      What a tragedy that so much anguish and pain has been caused by the incorrect rendering of one word.

    3. Unfortunately Joan, The brethren tend to eschew study as well as dictionary definitions. JH Symington declared (if I recall correctly) that iniquity is the "covering up of sin", so that is the superior definition of that word from 2 Timothy for them. In practice, some years ago that would have meant that if you had a cell phone hidden away and someone discovered it, since you were "covering" it up, they applied Symingtons definition of iniquity and "withdrew from you" or kicked you out. Of course it is possible that some individual within the ranks of the brethren might study the bible, but I would expect that to be very few if any. This reminds me of another "crisis" and an incident that may interest those who like to study brethren things. It could get lengthy, so I will make it a separate post.

      1 2 Mini

    4. Joan,

      The other item is connected with an argument that arose among the brethren in FER's time surrounding the subject of "eternal life". I don't remember exactly what FE Raven taught about eternal life, but I think it was somewhat controversial. I believe he taught that eternal life has no connection with heaven and that it is for the here and now or some such thing like that. "He that has the Son has life" was no longer to be taken at face value. If I am mistaken, perhaps someone will correct me. I remember it being said repeatedly at meeting during my life, that eternal life is "enjoyed now amongst the brethren" or "saints".
      The incident I mentioned is that I remember one David Langrell lamenting the fact that an ousted brother (from eastern Canada, don't remember his name just now) had done some research (on a computer heaven forbid) and had listed out the numerous Bible references to eternal life and had come to certain conclusions. Mr Langrell was seemingly distraught and spoke with something akin to disgust and disdain that this out brother had used a computer to compare and study the bible with, and that he had made conclusions contrary to brethren teaching.
      So it is a mainstay of brethren thought, that one does not study or think outside of the accepted manner of thinking.-- I fear that the primary or most effective way to reach through the thick fog of brethren indoctrination is through one Bruce Hales... If he is a disciple of Christ, he will just tell the brethren the truth and they just might believe it. If not, then some of them one by one will "lose their way" and some of those might even find truth.

      1 2 Mini

    5. "If he is a disciple of Christ, he will just tell the brethren the truth and they just might believe it".

      Interesting concept 1 2 Mini, and how is that determined and measured?


    6. I am not sure what you are asking me Bro, but I guess you mean how is truth determined?
      Anyway, he could start with the truth that he is Bruce Hales a common sinner, nothing more. Trouble is, that would most likely elevate him even more in the minds of brethren. Poor fella, not much he can do.

      1 2 Mini

    7. I was meaning, how would you determine if he is a disciple of Christ? answer fairly obvious, just provoking some to think about it.


  12. The thing I'd like to know is - why - if you protest so strongly for separation from evil (i.e. us) do you spend your nights trolling Wikipeebia looking for an argument. Would your nose not be better placed in the latest white book looking for the 'truth'? Also - when did Bruce say that it is OK to engage evil wrongdoers like us in some sort of bait and run exercise. Is the internet - the pipeline of filth - eroding Brethren values? I have a feeling it may be.

  13. It is thought provoking to consider from what the Exclusive brethren (PBCC) wish to withdraw. If it is illegal and unjust acts then it might be considered more appropriate for the general populace to withdraw from the Exclusive Brethren.

    Unjust acts might include the banishing of young people from their homes, putting pressure on families to split where there are signs of opposition to Brethren edicts, forcing "opposers" from place of work and family home, denying women the right to have independent and professional lives, forcing children into limiting, career denying schools, thwarting entrance to higher education, false presentation before Parliament, the CC and others to pursuade the authorites that the brethren are a benign, mainstream church, putting pressure on dissenters (giving rise to mental anguish and even suicide) misappropriating family inheritance, and so on.

    Illegality might include right wing political meddling using fakery (especially in the southern hemisphere) cases of abuse, failure to control under age alcohol consumption, court appearances and even imprisonment over such matters as dangerous and illegal driving, manslaughter and lying.

    It makes one wonder if the enthusiastic robe cleansing promotor above might not feel a sense of contamination and the need for a hot wash and a fast spin.

    Polly Ester

    1. Don't forget paedophilia. Some EB been recently jailed for that too. One case in Reading, England recently involving a 4 year old EB girl where the mother unbelievably pleaded for clemency for the 19 year old local EB man.

      'Church teen admits 'disgusting' assault'


      This guy's father was into porn himself as a schoolboy. I expect he takes 3 day meetings now.

    2. Nor let us forget the case in New Zealand where the brother was jailed - with the Peebs supporting his case -until it proved to be correct - but they welcomed him back with open arms after his jail time anyway.The poor creatures he harmed for life however - got $25,000.

  14. Yes, indeed, the list goes on and on. There was cruelty to elderly brethren who were forced to drink alcohol, after a lifetime of abstinence, under the reign of former leader Taylor Jnr who needed cover for his alcoholism. Some, who refused, were "anointed" with whisky. Since those times, alcohol, especially whisky, has been a mandatory feature of EB (PBCC) fellowship.

    There was the case of the elderly brother who was not moving fast enough with the current word, as it were, who was squirted with water by children in the meeting room with the approval of some of the so called adults.

    More laundry.

    Primary Source

  15. I am left feeling amused by all the twaddle written on this site :)

    1. And I guess "amused" is about the extent of your intellect, sausage delivery boy. Robust debate or even simple comprehension will have to be left to the un-brainwashed.

    2. Not sure where your coming from Anon 5th Dec 17:37

      This site contains comments from Exclusive Brethren (Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) members. Are you describing their comments as “twaddle” ?

      This site contains comments from those exposing the duplicity, deceit, detriment, harm, sectarianism, family division, biblical contradictions, etc, created and followed by the Exclusive Brethren (Plymouth Brethren Christian Church). Are you describing their comments as “twaddle” ?

      Please can you explain your position ?

      Thank you

    3. If you think people speaking the truth about the Exclusive Brethren is "twaddle" and amusing I can assure you it is not amusing to those whose lives have been wrecked by their actions.
      For the past 50+ years the unbiblical teaching in the Exclusive brethren church (if it can still be called a church) has resulted in people committing suicide, in families being divided, in husbands leaving wives and vice versa.
      I could go on. It makes me very angry for someone to describe that as "twaddle"!. Twaddle is silly talk or nonsense and I can assure you that the experiences recounted on this site are sad to say the truth and not nonsense..

  16. Dear Anon 5 Dec 17.37

    I take it you have difficulty in marshalling your emotions? Your amusement must be a cover for horror. Much of the cult activity by the Exclusive Brethren (PBCC) was started over 50 years ago, before public awareness and the use of the social media. It takes a long time to unravel the hidden. There has just been the exposure and trial of a cult leader, albeit with an extreme political source, who has managed to escape justice over a similar period. However, the unpleasant parallels are similar: members kept from contact with "the world", suppression of women, abuse, sexual improprietry, lack of a rounded education, total alleigance to the leader, contempt for worldly authority, and so on.

    I agree, there is a polarisation concerning EB(PBCC) antics over the years. If you didn't laugh, you would probably cry.

    Primary Source

  17. Twaddle huh? Typical brainwashed Peeb who cannot see the forest for the trees. Trust me my Hales-loving friend - it is all true. If we told untruths on here - believe it or not - people take issue with it. You need to sit back and listen to some of the stuff that people do say here. I forget of course that many of the commenters on here weren't born when half these shenanigans were going on. So rather than read the history of it - they just discount it as bull dust. Stay dumb my friend. It will serve you well with the master.