Tuesday, 10 November 2015

Received via contact form today

I am not sure who is writing all this stuff but the aggressive nature of your approach and attack on the Brethren who have done nothing but good for people is beyond reproach!

Because I know you won't print what I have to say, what say I give you my mobile number and invite you to call me... and trust me I can tell you a few things HONESTLY! Come on please call me. 0425 364 567

Look forward to hearing from you


Anthony John | acjadvisory@mail.com


  1. Anthony,

    You say, “I know you won't print what I have to say,” but I hope Laurie DOES print whatever you have to say. Up till now he has printed a lot of messages that he does not personally agree with at all. Full and free discussion is one of the best methods of arriving at the truth, and in such a process it is important that all views can be freely expressed. So I hope to hear more from you.

    1. Ian , Dear friend, who are you trying to kid?
      The truth is the truth, so your worldly notion of free discussion is nothing more than man made tripe. Free discussion does not arrive at the truth because it's not of the truth.

      Contented non member of PBCC :)

    2. Well then, Anonymous, what is your method of searching out the truth? If you don’t like free and open discussion, you must have some other method. If a so-called Man of God says something, does that make it the truth? If the Bible uses a metaphor or allegory or a story to illustrate a principle, do you take the story as literal truth? How much weight do you give to evidence that you can see with your own eyes? How much weight do you give to the need for your views to be self-consistent?

    3. Our PBCC aka Exclusive Brethren friend above, who speaks so strongly against free discussion clearly doesn’t know their Bible, which is the Word of God.

      James 3:17 “But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere.”

      Being “open to reason” describes discussion !

      The Bible, Gods Word is full of references to persons being taught, discourse, discussion in both a positive and negative way.

      Why do the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church aka Exclusive Brethren always twist the Bible to suit their own agenda or ignore it completely ?

    4. "Free discussion does not arrive at the truth because it's not of the truth..." says contented non member of PBCC ??!!
      Does that mean that whatever the current MOG says is the truth irrespective of whether his understanding is accurate or complete? I have generally found Proverbs 11 verse 14 to be true - Where there is no counsel the people fall; But in the multitude of counsellors there is safety"
      God created us with a brain and He expects us to use it
      "Come now let us reason together says the Lord. Though your sins are like scarlet they shall be as white as snow" Isaiah 1 verse 18. Even God wants us to have a discussion with Him.
      Sadly it is very apparent on this blog that the Exclusive Brethren contributors (or those that purport to support them) seem unable to carry on a discussion in a sensible logical fashion. Why is that? Are they simply unable to support their viewpoint in an intelligent cogent manner and consequently on occasions resort to the verbal abuse of other contributors with whom they disagree.
      Worthwhile dialogue with the aim of fostering understanding would be welcomed by many on this site.

    5. Being open to reason describes not just any discussion, but discussion among people who do not have closed minds. It’s not the kind of discussion in which people just make bald statements unsupported by evidence or argument.

      The word Logos usually means reason, or reasoned discourse, and John 1 presents Christ as a manifestation of it in flesh. Philo of Alexandria, a contemporary of John, regarded reason very highly, even reverently, as something divine; but John went even further and declared that it was personified in Christ.

      Jesus reasoned with the Sadducees. Mark 12 says, “and one of the scribes who had come up, and had heard them reasoning together, . . .”

      It was said of Paul that he reasoned every day (Acts 17:17) in the synagogue and in the market place with those he met, and every Sabbath (Acts 18:4) and in the synagogue at Ephesus (Acts 18:19) and daily in the school of Tyrannus (Acts 19:9) and with Felix (Acts 24:25).

      Acts 15:7 “And much discussion having taken place, . . .”

      1 Peter 3:15 tells us we should always be prepared to give an answer to every one that asks you to give an account of the hope that is in you.

      So discussion and reasoning have a major part to play in the New Testament way of doing things.

  2. What is Mr Anthony John trying to say? Is the attack he perceives being made on the Exclusive Brethren beyond reproach or is he trying to defend a cult who he alleges are doing "nothing but good"? He must have taken lessons from the EB on ambiguous double-speak!!
    If the EB are half as good as he alleges why have so many people taken the trouble to identify on this site the harm and detriment that they cause to people's lives? Why has the UK Charity Commission taken such a keen interest in an organisation that has done "nothing but good" Mr John?
    A little honesty on your part would be helpful.

  3. Mr John
    The PBCC (aka EB) website disallows comments that are even mildly critical of the conduct of their organisation.
    As Ian has stated this website encourages free speech and has printed many messages from members of the EB and their so-called supporters. Which is the more open and honest approach?

  4. https://au.linkedin.com/in/anthony-john-2a44842a

    Big talking twat local with BDH

    1. Do you mean I am the "big talking twat local with BDH"? just curious? Not offended :-)

  5. I sent an email to Anthony John at the address posted above and this message was sent back

    "Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently"

    Is the email address as quoted correct ?, or does Anthony John not want to have an honest, open, truthful discussion ?

    Anthony John, if you do wish to have honest, open, truthful discussion about the Exclusive Brethren (known after 2012 as Plymouth Brethren Christian Church), then please contact me on emailtherev at gmail.com

    1. Hello Brother Rev... My email is acjadvisory@gmail.com I think I left off the "g" sorry. Happy to hear from you.

  6. Using the link provided above, if this is the correct Anthony John as mentioned, here are some extracts from his Linkedin profile.

    Note the statements in ‘Opportunities’ and ‘Causes Supported’ which would have had persons ‘withdrawn from’ and ‘separated from’ had they been involved or associated with prior to 2012

    Anthony John - Workplace Specialist. Sydney Area, Australia Architecture & Planning. Current - Project Control Group, Ant Project Design Pty Ltd, acjAdvisory. Previous - Scope Projects (Corporate Furniture and Interiors Pty Ltd), Antek Corporate Design. Education - University of Sydney

    Interior architecture is the design of a space which has been created by structural boundaries and the human interaction within these boundaries. It can also be the initial design and plan for use, the later redesign to accommodate a changed purpose, or a significantly revised design for adaptive reuse of the building shell. The latter is often part of sustainable architecture practices, conserving resources through "recycling" a structure by adaptive redesign. Generally referred to as the spatial art of environmental design, form and practice, interior architecture is the process through which the interiors of buildings are designed, concerned with all aspects of the human uses of structural spaces. Interior architecture is a gift, like that of music, literacy, leadership etc., the ability of one to fully perceive/envisage that each component piece fits exactly, is accurately costed and is both practical and atheistically pleasing. Managing client confidence and exceeding their expectations is fundamental. Anthony has a holistic, candid, open approach, he engages with his clients and becomes their confidants. Thorough knowledge in all areas of commercial interiors; detailed design, architectural documentation and project delivery methodology enables this. He also oversees extraordinary property solutions for his clients, providing practical advice and that best financial deals are secured from the market every time. This is associated with the lease/sale, agreement/execution negotiations in co-operation with leasing agents and landlords as required. Anthony is educated by some of the best of schools and mentors in the land. He has more than 25 years of unbroken service to the industry, has accumulated knowledge and experience many of his observers say is unparalleled. That said, he well knows its the NEXT challenge and how it is resolved that really counts. Being receptive, ready and constantly reaching out for a superior sequel is key!

    Volunteer Experience & Causes
    Opportunities Anthony is looking for:
    Joining a nonprofit board
    Skills-based volunteering (pro bono consulting)

    Causes Anthony cares about:
    Animal Welfare
    Arts and Culture
    Civil Rights and Social Action
    Economic Empowerment
    Human Rights
    Disaster and Humanitarian Relief
    Poverty Alleviation
    Science and Technology
    Social Services
    Organizations Anthony supports:
    Campbell Arnott's
    Premier Furniture Sydney
    Roads and Maritime Services - NSW Government
    Independent Coursework
    Diploma Property Services
    University of Sydney
    Diploma, Real Estate Development
    2014 – 2015 TAFE
    Adv Cert. Business Managememt
    1987 – 2000 TAFE
    Advanced Certificate, Accounting
    Windsor High School

  7. Son of Warwick John PBCC's original Federal and State Government lobbyist. The apple hasn't fallen far from the tree.

    1. I suggest you check your sources before quoting who's child he is, because he isn't.
      C'mon RAF, what went wrong there!!

  8. You notice that the study of Scripture and learning more about the Saviour of sinners does not feature in the things that Anthony cares about. Are you ashamed Anthony or do you think that belonging to the Brethren is your passport to heaven. Have you ever felt your total unworthiness and cried out to Jesus - because He alone and not a " position " offers salvation for sinners.

  9. A list of causes that long in what is, in effect, a CV, immediately arouses suspicion.

  10. I just wonder if he has done this deliberately knowing that Laurie would post his message. Just to rile everyone and get us saying things he and the EB can pounce on. That does not explain his extraordinary description on LinkedIn though. Nor how he was allowed to go to university given that many on here were not allowed to.

    So Anthony let's call your bluff. Laurie HAS posted your message so now you have an opportunity to tell us about these brethren who have done "nothing but good" - and try telling that to the many parents who have lost their children. My poor mother did not see her son for decades - not of her doing at all. As she lay dying, she grimaced when I said his name despite the morphine sleep she was in. Come on tell me what is so good about that?

    AND DO NOT insult my intelligence by telling me that this was an individual matter.
    Sadly I cannot sign in my own name since your wonderful brethren attack me harshly when I speak.


  11. I understand Anthony is lonely and has difficulty sleeping at night (what peeb supporter wouldn't?) So he appreciates your phonecalls and text messages any time of the day or night. Ring 0425 364 567, he's waiting for your call!

  12. Presumably that's an Australian number so don't forget to add the code if you live outside of Australia. And he will of course then have your number - you can conceal a landline in the UK by using 141 not sure about mobile.

    1. Internationally dial +61 425 364 567. Easy to conceal number from a mobile in Oz.

  13. Anthony was withdrawn from some 10 years ago. He is Malcolm John's son. His is an unusual and sad situation. While I certainly do not agree with the sentiments he has expressed , I think he deserves our sympathy not scorn. He grew up with BDH (Anthony would be aprox 10 years younger) as a 'hero' and has not seen through Bruce's charismatic facade... It appears that he's trying to re establish links with Bruce's HEB cult. It's all so sad and needs continuing and increasing exposure , but please lets be measured, kind and positive :)
    Note: keep up the good work, Beedy values their 'charitable' (hahaha) status above perhaps anything else.........and he IS over reaching himself ......like all despots do in the end.. Cheers!

    1. Thank you, Mother Theresa!

    2. There are hundreds of decent people out there who have had their families savagely ripped apart and here is some ex-EB heirarchy member looking to curry favour by supporting the EB - and you say "His is an unusual and sad situation ... I think he deserves our sympathy not scorn ... It's all so sad and needs continuing and increasing exposure, but please lets be measured, kind and positive". Not me sorry, I try and be kind and supportive to hapless victims not would-be religious power hungry potential abusers.

    3. Some ideas are best treated with scorn, but not people. Scornful personal comments hardly ever do any good for anyone, and often just drive the scorned person out of reach of any helpful dialogue. Even a seriously deluded person is best treated with respect and sympathy. So I welcome these moderating comments of Anonymous12 November 2015 at 00:20.

  14. It’s so difficult.

    Last week I received a disturbing letter from a senior member of the UK PBCC, with whom Neil Christie of Leeds had put me in touch, which revealed precisely why non- and former-Brethren people find it almost impossible to maintain normal, positive relationships with PBCC members. My correspondent wrote that he wanted to “cease” contact with me, and his reasoning seemed to be that it was because I don’t accept that he should separate from me.

    Think about that for a moment: ‘I don’t want any contact with you because you won’t accept that I don’t want any contact with you’ [my paraphrase].

    I feel for everyone who has to deal with that kind of reasoning, and although it can be difficult to know how to counter it effectively, I firmly believe it’s important to try. My way is to work patiently but firmly to combat ignorance among these brethren and to persist in explaining to them that I am not unclean, nor a source of defilement or infection. The Charity Commission of England and Wales has asked me to continue to approach these brethren and hopes that I will be “successful” in my contacts with them. Sadly, my correspondent last week chose a different adjective when casting me aside. He wrote that our contact had not been “resultful”.

    I hope that one day former brethren who would like to relate normally to brethren people will be made welcome and received with kindness and courtesy by their brethren friends and relatives.

    1. Joan, Terribly sorry and all that, but it's
      not cool to impose yourself on the PBCC
      or insist they give up their position.
      They wish to remain separate, so we can respect it. PC correctness about 'human rights' is mostly a worldly notion of no value or truth and especially more so when God's rights and claims are being ignored.
      God's rights..That's what matters.

      To also misrepresent the Brethren to the Charity commission is pretty low and dishonest. I really can't say l blame them for sending you a letter given your insistance to impose on what is a matter of conscience.
      Take the hint graciously and you might get some help.


    2. At least Laurie gives 'JC' the right to post something. Try posting something on the Sausage Brethren site.

      I hadn't realised that God was so interested in sausages before the RRT was suggested by the spin doctors. One wonders just how many sausages Garth Hales has tasted. Five loaves and two small sausages.......it's all biblical you know.

    3. JC, I find it difficult to understand your post.

      Are you implying that Joan is applying human rights principles to the Brethren’s separation practices? If she had done so, it would have been entirely appropriate, because the Brethren flout human rights in many blatant ways, but in fact for as far back as I can remember, Joan’s appeals to the Brethren have been based not on the principles of human rights but on the Holy Scriptures.

      Are you implying that Joan has misrepresented the Brethren to the Charity Commission? I would be most surprised if she did, because she has always been scrupulously fair and accurate in her comments about Brethren. If you are making any such accusation you ought at least to give an example to illustrate what you mean.

      But in your views on human rights you are not alone. There are a lot of people and influential organisations who agree with you. They include the governments of North Korea, Iran, Syria, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Zimbabwe and the Islamic State. They also include the leaders of the Mormons, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Unification Church (Moonies), the Fundamentalist Church of Latter-Day Saints, the Church of Scientology, the People’s Temple, “the Family,” and the Branch Davidians.

      However, those who disagree with you about human rights include the Governments of the US, Canada, all members of the European Union, all the Scandinavian and Baltic countries, Australia and New Zealand; and also all the mainstream Christian churches.

      To sum up, your views are shared by all the worst governments and all the worst religions, and are explicitly rejected by all the best governments and all the most benign religions.

      There are several ways of assessing the moral worth of an idea or a principle, but one of the simplest ways it to see what kind of people subscribe to it.

    4. JC ......Your brethren misrepresented themselves to the CC by masquerading as an evangelical, mainstream church, rather than a damaging, personality cult of no public benefit. You didn't heed any assustance.


    5. JC,
      In your defence of the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church (aka Exclusive Brethren), you speak of - “God’s rights. That’s what matters”.

      God’s rights & claims are fully detailed in the Bible, which is the Word of God & is the ‘Only’ place where Christians can verify if teachings are supported by God’s Word, because God can not contradict Himself (Hebrews 6:17–18, Num. 23:19).

      Irrespective of persons claiming otherwise - if teachings contradict the Bible, or disobey the Bible, or ignore the Bible, they ‘Cannot’ be from God. Putting God’s name to such contradictory false teaching is heretical, blasphemous & not of the Christian faith.

      An examination (like the Bereans), of teachings in the Bible, v. what the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church (aka Exclusive Brethren) actually practice, believe & teach, clearly shows PBCC (aka EB), ignore, disobey & have ‘No’ respect for Gods rights & claims.

      For example, ignoring, disobeying, disrespecting, God’s Biblical rights / claims on -

      - the Body of Christ, because they separate from all other Christians in the Body of Christ
      - eating & drinking, because they refuse to do so with any other Christians
      - appointment & qualifications for elders, because they don’t have any
      - the Bride of Christ & Church of Christ, because they separate from it & every other Christian in it
      - warnings against sectarianism, because they are deeply sectarian & divisive
      - warnings against putting the word of ‘men’ above the word of God, because they follow ‘men’
      - warnings against separating husband & wife, because they practice & enforce such division
      - the ‘whosoever’ in John 3,16, because they say if you leave the group your not Christian
      - accepting other Christians, because they withdraw from & separate from all other Christians
      - church discipline, because they abuse, misuse & twist it to suit their sectarian agenda
      - warnings against misrepresenting the Gospel, because they do exactly that
      - warnings against deceit, falsehoods, doublemindedness & lies, because they practice all that
      - instructions for fellowship, communion & worship with other Christians, because they don’t
      - recognising the work of God in other Christians, because they separate from all other Christians
      - individual Christian conscience, because its not allowed as members must obey ‘mens ideas’
      - freedom of the Holy Spirit, because they teach the Holy Spirit is only with them
      - marriage to other Christians, because they teach that persons can not marry outside the group
      - dealing with evil, immorality, alcoholism, because all these are tolerated (condoned in JT Junior)
      - accepting the work of God in all Christians, because they separate from all other Christians under a doctrine of ‘Separation from Evil’, which by default denigrates the work of God in all other Christians

      As PBCC (aka EB) are a deeply sectarian, divisive & harmful damaging family dividing group - & - as they have consistently used obfuscation, misrepresentation, lies, falsehoods & PR spin when ‘lobbying’ authorities - & - as their practices, beliefs & actions show a total disconnect from Christian teachings & standards in Gods Word the Bible (God cannot contradict Himself), it is clear PBCC (aka EB) deny, ignore & disobey God’s rights / claims.

      It is important therefore that persons such as Joan & many others, expose the harm & help impose & maintain scrutiny on the PBCC, make Christians & others aware of the issues & inform authorities of the plausible sophistries & double dealings of the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church (aka Exclusive Brethren)

      Naturally, the PBCC (aka EB) will try to prevent the truth being spoken

      If being ‘cool’ as you term it, means supporting a sectarian, family dividing, false teaching, Bible twisting, Plymouth Brethren Christian Church (aka Exclusive Brethren), then I’m not interested in being ‘cool’, I’m just interested in being a Christian & speaking truth in love.

  15. If as suggested Mr John is at present not "in fellowship" and is trying to earn some brownie points by supporting the PBCC (EB) it would be interesting to learn what his motivation is in doing so.
    Does he wish to re-establish relationships that have been broken by his excommunication? Does he consider it would be financially advantageous if he was allowed to re-join? Does he think he might be able to gain a position of influence within the EB? Or does he really believe his own statement that "the brethren have done nothing but good".
    Why would any person want to re-join the EB? From the evidence of what is known of their so called ministry it would certainly not be motivated by a desire for an increased understanding of the scriptures or a closer walk with the Lord.

    1. 0He is possibly scared that Warwick will die and he will be cut out of the will :)

  16. Maybe Mr John is a sausage trader and sees a business opportunity? Much of the PBCC's website is about sausages. I think the lord might be pointing them up at the moment and should he turn a corner, we'll all have Cumberland sausages instead.

  17. When I first left the peebs I sometimes tried to defend them - yes it seems a bit odd now, but I just didn't have a clear or rounded vision then. Perhaps if I'd stayed in my own company and not made the effort to find a place in the world, maybe even after 10yrs out I'd still be upset when people criticized them? (I don't know about Anthony's circumstances, but I know of a few exEB who've managed to continue hankering to go back, for very many years. I do feel for such people, caught in the most horrendous EB-created limbo.)

    1. A similar example is described in the book, Not My Idea of Heaven. One of the most tragic parts of the story is that Lindsey Rosa’s parents, after being excommunicated, lived for 15 years still in thrall to oppressive Brethren rules, deprived of social contact with their friends and families, and depriving themselves of social contact with normal people too. Such is the power and persisting toxic effects of EB indoctrination.

    2. My mother left the EB-proper in 1970 and was EB-lite for many years until she lost her faith completely before she passed away a couple of years back. Yet to her dying day she never watched a television, still believing it to be evil.


  18. Hello Everyone...

    One of my good friends spoke to me today about the comments I made recently on this site.
    Can I start by apologising to you all profusely for the inflammatory things I said.

    I am so sorry I upset so many of you who are obviously hurting for reasons beyond my knowledge. The things I said I can see was provocative which I thoroughly regret and understand your responses as I failed to embrace your feelings! I have my views about the Brethren which I am entitled to - you have yours for the reasons mentioned. I did not intend to add to your hurt and one writer speaks so beautifully said about the death and sufferings of Jesus. I too believe this is more important than us fighting each other for our own views.

    Once again... Im sorry for saying things that upset you all. I hope you can accept what I have said.

    1. Thank you Anthony for that conciliatory message. I also regret the scornful comments that have been made about you here and elsewhere. I hope you will understand the pain that lay behind them, and not be too hurt by them. Maybe we can now use these forums for balanced and respectful discussion.

    2. Thank you Ian... I sure didn't mean to hurt anyone as I have been HURT to hell and back but I am not bitter. But that is only me... what some of you have been through deserve our sympathy and love as love conquers all. Jesus conquered by love, not bitterness or hate. I agree lets use these forums to discuss our experiences.

  19. Thank you for your gracious apology, Anthony.
    For my part I welcome your contribution to this blog as we all come here by a different route. I simply wanted to learn what prompted your email to Laurie as few who have left or been excommunicated from the PBCC (EB) have anything favourable to say about them.
    As you have noted many are still hurting because of the damage done to their lives and relationships by actions taken by the Exclusive Brethren. I sometimes wonder if this is fully understood by current members of the sect.
    As I am about to go and remember the Lord with other believers whom the EB would describe as evil persons I do not have the time to say more but I send you my best wishes and hope you will contribute further.

  20. I'm sure we can all find it in our hearts to forgive someone who is genuinely sorry for what they have said, written or done. What I am currently facing with the PBCC is a complete denial of everything they have done in the past and that is so hard to bear. It can almost feel as if you are slowly going insane yourself. No one can change the facts of what has happened in the past, but what the PBCC are currently doing, is concocting stories to suit the facts you give them. I'm sure they have been coached into admitting nothing.

    We recently saw a PBCC member imprisoned for a whole year longer than he might have been, for pleading not guilty to a crime witnessed by several members of the general public. What is that all about? In my book that is not even Christian and to run away from a crime scene, leaving a man dying, to 'pray at home' is frankly unbelievable. Especially in the light of the RRT's fervour in helping any and everybody.

    The PBCC have sunk lower in behaviour than many in the overtly criminal fraternity. You aware of any other church goers who send their kids to school under the influence of alcohol?

    I, for one, would love to help Anthony open his eyes to the real evil of that system.

  21. Thank you all for your comments...

    I just think we need to respect the experiences of each other and find confidence and refuge in the love of Jesus. Constantly harping back to the past and finding fault in what the Brethren might or might not have done doesn't solve the problem I feel. That was probably the reason for my initial comments. Lets unite in what He will take to Himself very soon. Look at what is happening in Paris... and has happening right here in my city Sydney.

    I too have a very sad story to tell that would surprise you all but I have confidence in the fact that Christ knows and I can pray at night knowing He knows everything and I am thankful I havent been bitter. Remember too I have NO ONE out here other than 3 cousins who I love. Thats enough about my woes! :-)

    My heart and love goes out to you all.

    Once again I am sorry I upset so many of you.!

    PS I just wish some of you could reveal your identity and not be "anonymous"

  22. Anthony - your apology is helpful. Thank you.

    Jesus taught that peacemakers are blessed (Matthew 5:9) and "will be called children of God.". As a non-Brethren person, I'm always relieved when people associated with this group of Exclusive Brethren have an irenic disposition.

    All the best to you. (BTW, there are many churches in Sydney where Christians seek to love God and love their neighbour as themselves. You might like to visit some near you and see if you could worship with them.)

    1. Hello Joan (I am guessing who you are :-))
      Thank you for what you said... please feel free to email me acjadvisory@gmail.com I dont have anything to hide in the sense I dont mind telling you my email address. Hope you are well and would love to hear from you.

  23. 'Constantly harping back to the past and finding fault in what the Brethren might or might not have done doesn't solve the problem I feel.'

    A simple acknowledgement and apology from the PBCC could solve all that. Do remember Anthony, that to continue with charitable status the brethren agreed to make amends for their past mistakes. Having failed to do so, they have simply duped the Charity Commission. In my book that is not OK. It is deceitful and hypocritical.

    Anthony, may I ask for your views on ex-Dr Mark Craddock's recent attempt to 'cure' a man of his homosexuality?

    1. Well funnily enough I am gay too and know the man from NZ as I do Mark Craddock - very well in fact. He was our family doctor when he lived in Sydney originally. So I believe my opinion is probably pretty balanced. I think it was a reckless ignorant action that probably ruined that young man's life.

    2. Thank you Anthony. A fair judgement. And we all know who suggested that course of action. I personally do not feel that anyone acting as 'God's representative' on earth would sanction an attempt to chemically castrate anyone, let alone harm them in any other way. Nor would they speak in very recent ministry about administering Arsenic or Cyanide to people perceived to be 'traitors'. To the true Christian this behaviour and mind set is deeply shocking and needs to be exposed. There is no 'bitterness' in exposing evil.

      "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

    3. Hello there... I don't know what you refer to because I don't hear anything from in there. Nor do I wish to because what They have is theirs and I respect that. :-)

      All I can say is; the grace of Jesus is able for all my needs - yeah? If I was bitter it would eat away at my soul and that would tear me apart. Just so glad that I have not been consumed by hatred. I am sorry if I cant help any more :-(

      Find peace and happiness in that old verse "The Lord knows those that are His". I just hope I am in His choice in the end!

      Please feel free to email me or call me.

      Anthony :-)

    4. Anthony - The young man's life has not been ruined, thankfully - but it could have been. Instead he has grown into an intelligent, thoughtful, insightul, caring, empathic young man I am very proud to know. What happened to him was appalling - I am glad he has had the strength to move through the experience, process it and become the man he is today, not bitter, even though as far as I am aware no amends have been made.

      I feel for you Anthony because I think you are still hanging on to your past instead of letting it go and becoming all that you have the potential of becoming.

      I wish you well

    5. The cynical EB/PBCC do not apologise as that might be construed as an admission of guilt, possibly subject to legal process by way of damages, and so on. This would be financially detrimental; the accumulation of wealth being at the heart of everything the PBCC Ltd do and believe.

      Number Cruncher

  24. Anthony thank you for your frankness. Sadly I have to remain anonymous because of the actions of the brethren against me. I have no wish to add fuel to their fire.

    Your words of respecting each other are so important which is why I found your initial message offensive since it showed neither respect nor tolerance. We are all on different journeys - if you needed to say that perhaps out of frustration that's fine with me and apology accepted. Some do need to talk about their past in order to make sense of it - so we need to respect that too. But I agree it needs to be for the purpose of moving forward and not getting stuck in a groove.

    I can't reveal my identity but I always give myself a name to make it easier for people to respond to me.


  25. HI Anthony. I must point out , with indescribable CURRENT personal sadness and pain , that the Detriment and Harm caused by the HEB is ongoing. I can personally show that the 'Review' turned out to be a clever PR charade , controlled , as is everything , by BDH. I was 'in' then and dealing with Bruce personally. Via his grand plan Bruce has become immensely personally wealthy and has a personal stranglehold on all the EB 'church' assets worldwide. 'Commerce in the Assembly' is now way beyond the 'system'. The DETRIMENT & HARM is also increasing. Don't be deceived by all the clever and nauseous spin and deceit. Bruce is going to great lengths and is expending so much on a PR facade simply because his 'charitable' (hahaha) status is ESSENTIAL to his greed. I told him I couldn't agree with his behaviour. I'm sorry Anthony, the sad truth is he is a fraud who is currently defrauding the Citizens of many Countries via 'Charitable' status , while continuing to cause DETRIMENT and HARM in so many communities worldwide.


  26. I agree Anon 16th Nov 2015 @20:24

    I welcome Anthony Johns clarifying comments of 15 November 2015 at 03:12 and 15 November 2015 at 10:15 and 16 November 2015 at 08:30.

    However, we must not fall into the trap of declaring those who speak out and expose the Exclusive Brethren (aka PBCC) as consumed by bitterness, hatred, or obsessed with the past.

    This is what the Exclusive Brethren aka Plymouth Brethren Christian Church, PR propaganda spin machine want persons to think, about those who speak out.

    The truth and fact is, these detriment and harm issues are NOT just in the past, they ARE current. Families are still separated even now and the PBCC still separates and withdraws physically from any who leave the sectarian group. The detriment and harm CONTINUES, it is not in the past, it is NOW in 2015.

    I know this from persons we know who have family trapped inside the walls of the PBCC and I know this because we have family members still trapped inside. I personally have aunts, uncles, nephews, nieces, cousins etc whom I haven’t seen for over 40 years, or in some cases never even met. My own mother and uncle have not seen their sister and had normal family relations for over 40 years.

    The cynical rebranding from Exclusive Brethren to Plymouth Brethren Christian Church in 2012, the glossy website full of lies, the PR, the propaganda, the Charity Commission agreement they signed up to in 2014, they sudden giving to charitable causes in 2012, have all changed NOTHING.

    So, please do not fall into the trap of thinking the detriment and harm is ‘historic’ and in the past and please do not fall into the trap of calling those who speak out as ‘bitter’ and in the ‘past’ and consumed with ‘hate’ .

    It is true that “Jesus conquered by love” but he also spoke out about false teaching, hypocrisy, double mindedness, speaking truth, hating lies and deceit, standing up for those who had been harmed or suffered, exposing and warning against sectarianism, etc. The Biblical Apostle Paul also spoke about these things. The Bible instructs Christians to show love but also to expose, rebuke and reprove those who propagate false teaching, twist Gods Word and cause harm and damage to others

    One of the key issues amongst some in the global Christian Church today is a laissez-faire type attitude towards harmful damaging false teaching and deep sectarianism. It is tolerated because persons are reluctant to speak out because they will be labelled with being ‘bitter’, full of hate’ ‘finding fault’ etc etc.

    What the Exclusive Brethren aka PBCC represent has nothing to do with the truth of Gods Word in the Bible and nothing to do with Biblical Christianity, but everything to do with deep sectarianism and following the whims and fancies of the latest money making exercise and words of the ‘leaders’ such as JT or BDH.

    On that basis all genuine Christians (and non Christians) should speak out and expose the PBCC EB for what they are and not be cowed by the sympathisers who try to silence the truth and gloss over the ugly harm and detriment.

    Yes we should encourage dialogue with those inside the group and show love towards them but not at the expense of truth and fact.

    As a Christian of course I have confidence in the fact “Christ knows these things and I can pray at night knowing He knows everything” but that does not stop a Christian (or non Christian) from speaking out, (the Bible charges us to do that), and we must remember that Christ and the Holy Spirit work through people.

  27. Hello everyone....

    I really don't have anymore to say other than whatever has happened to you has my sincere sympathy. Irrespective, I have had sorrow and MUCH sadness, lonliness but my love and respect for BDH and his father JSH is beyond words!. Just like you I have been disconnected with ALL my family and many I love but I knew the consequences of my decisions!
    I can only speak of their love, benevolence, care and generosity - in the extreme!!! I worked for Athol Greene and Bruce and Mr Hales so if I am not bitter perhaps we could work this out????

    1. Hi Anthony
      Don't cast pearls before swine...
      Your words are well meaning and l also feel the same love and respect as you do for the brethren.
      However, it's better not to debate with people here or attempt to reason with them.
      Such persons have set their faces against God's word in the present day. The darkness in their hearts has become exceedingly dark bitter, twisted, treacherous and poisonous.
      These persons have a murderous spirit and should be avoided.
      Be assured that your faith is founded on
      The Rock and the Lord does not fail.
      He started a work in us and will therefore
      Complete it. Trust him and leave your concerns in his hands.

      Not a member of PBCC
      Saved by Grace

    2. Hi Anthony
      Don't cast pearls before swine...
      Your words are well meaning and l also feel the same love and respect as you do for the brethren.
      However, it's better not to debate with people here or attempt to reason with them.
      Such persons have set their faces against God's word in the present day. The darkness in their hearts has become exceedingly dark bitter, twisted, treacherous and poisonous.
      These persons have a murderous spirit and should be avoided.
      Be assured that your faith is founded on
      The Rock and the Lord does not fail.
      He started a work in us and will therefore
      Complete it. Trust him and leave your concerns in his hands.

      Not a member of PBCC
      Saved by Grace

    3. Anthony John 21st Nov @ 13:48

      Your post is revealing & shows the mind-set of those deeply indoctrinated by Exclusive Brethren (aka PBCC) ways of thinking. Your post reminds me of “Stockholm Syndrome”

      “Stockholm Syndrome” - is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness. Stockholm syndrome can be seen as a form of traumatic bonding, which does not necessarily require a hostage scenario, but which describes "strong emotional ties that develop between two persons where one person intermittently harasses, beats, threatens, abuses, or intimidates the other." One commonly used hypothesis to explain the effect of Stockholm syndrome is based on Freudian theory. Identifying with the aggressor is one way that the ego defends itself. When a victim believes the same values as the aggressor, they cease to be perceived as a threat”

      Anthony John,

      Please understand, I am not seeking to be scornful of your comments, I actually feel really sorry and sad for you, because you may not realise it yourself Antony John, but it is you who have not moved on & come to an understanding of the error, sectarianism & unchristian non Biblical practices of the Exclusive Brethren (aka Plymouth Brethren Christian Church)

      I mention the “Stockholm Syndrome”, as it would take a damaged psychology from indoctrination and brainwashing to think the following is a rational position to take –

      - Having personally suffered (along with thousands of others) - “sorrow and MUCH sadness, loneliness and separation”

      - To then give praise towards those who are responsible, by saying – “love and respect beyond words” and “love, benevolence, care and generosity - in the extreme!!”

      It is so sad & demonstrates you have not moved on. Despite what the Exclusive Brethren (PBCC) have inflicted upon you, you still support them, even though what they do is opposed to the teachings of Christ & Gods Word the Bible.

      Anthony John,

      It is dangerous to say our love and respect for ‘sinfull men in the flesh” is “beyond words” .(as you have done). Such intense love (as implied) should only be placed in Christ. You have confessed to being a Christian so your comments are surprising & at best ‘strange’ and at worst ‘idolatry’

      Anthony John,

      It is not a Biblical consequence to be separated from family and relatives. That is not taught in the Bible, especially if a person is simply leaving to go to a Christian Church.

      BDH and other leaders have stated that “persons who leave can’t claim Christ”, “you cant be a Christian outside of the Brethren” & “if you leave you have turned away from Christ”, yet you have claimed to be Christian & spoken about Christ in your posts, please can you explain how this can be ?

      Anthony John,

      Please can you also explain how it is possible for persons to have “love, benevolence, care and generosity - in the extreme!!!” towards others, when they

      - say and print such unchristian deep sectarian supposed “ministry”, say you cant be a Christian if you leave, recommend suicide & shooting if you leave, enforce separation from family & from all Christians outside the sectarian walls of Ebism (PBCC) & refuse to eat, drink, fellowship or worship with any Christians outside the sectarian PBCC walls

      Anthony John,

      Please can you also explain how you can support such actions & the persons enforcing these practices, when you also claim to be Christian & have spoken about Christ in your other posts ?

      Do you not realise that these practices and the person’s enforcing them are utterly opposed to the teachings of Christ in Gods Word the Bible ?

      I simply seek to speak the truth in love as instructed by the Bible

    4. Excellent post from Brother Rev. My own thoughts put into words.

    5. I can sum up Rev's posts about the PBCC as
      Nonsensical waffle laced with poison.

    6. Anonymouse 04.26

      Would what you have said here link in some way with our belubbed blubber, Mr Bruce, at Sutton in June, when he spoke, most soberly, of taking poison if you leave the position? Also is there a link with nonsensical waffle in this instance?


  28. Hello Anthony,

    You speak of finding confidence and refuge in the love of Jesus, that the grace of Jesus is able for all your needs. You point out that Jesus conquered by love and you advise us to unite in what Jesus "will take to himself very soon".

    Yet BDH proclaims that those who have left the EB;

    "can't claim shelter of it (the Blood) if you go out of fellowship and say you're saved: it means nothing"
    "impossible to go out deliberately and claim to be a real believer"
    "go out and say you're saved; complete and utter despisal of the blood of Jesus, rejection of the cross"
    "they (those who've left EB) belong to the perishing class; perishing with the wicked"

    Now I know that , like much of Bruce's current 'ministry' this contradicts ministry by the previous 'men of God'. Go figure..

    Since you were withdrawn from there have been radical changes. JSH's latter ministry and practice have been trampled on.
    Athol Greene said to me soon after BDH assumed total control "it's almost idolatry", well it's got much worse since.
    The reality is that Bruce is out of control and has morphed the EB into a cult that worships him and is obsessed with commerce and money. His whole operation worldwide is underpinned by "charitable" status , including huge 'charitable' commercial operations pouring funds into this charade masquerading as 'religion' while causing horrible Detriment and Harm.

    With kind regards,
    Craig Stewart.

  29. "He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark moustache. O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-
    scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."

    George Orwell, 1984

  30. George,

    You nailed it brother. Love is the important thing here do you think?

    Watching you after

    1 2. Mini

  31. Anthony John wrote "my love and respect for BDH and his father JSH is beyond words!" Man, my reaction to that is also almost beyond words. But I do have a solution. Get yourself a cat. A cat is loving and lovable, and non-judgmental. It won't rip your family apart (only your furniture). It only demands food, not money in brown paper envelopes. There are many of us-exes out here who proved JTJr wrong - you can love God AND a pet. For your own sanity and well-being, trade in your love of BDH for love for a cat. You could even call it Bruce if you wanted. Problem solved. No need to thank me.


  32. Cats are evil aren't they? I think this guy has a better idea-- youtube.com/watch?v=e3hPH-99HiA

    I question whether brethren can relate to the idea of unconditional love. Maybe I have it all wrong though, and that is what Anthony has achieved toward his tormentors.


    On a more serious note, you say:
    "I worked for Athol Greene and Bruce and Mr Hales so if I am not bitter perhaps we could work this out????"
    I wonder what you mean by that? What are you wanting to work out and with whom? I deeply love the brethren too, but I hate much of what they do. Doesn't love include the idea of telling those you love that they are involved in evil or wrong if in fact they are?

    If you are wanting to work things out with the brethren, I am with you. There is just a slight problem though, that will require that we all have the same standard for determining right and wrong.

    1 2 Mini

  33. Anthony John,

    Matthew 16 v 24 "Then Jesus said to his disciples, If any one desires to come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whosoever shall desire to save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what does a man profit, if he should gain the whole world and suffer the loss of his soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?"

    2 Timothy 2 v 19 "Yet the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, [The] Lord knows those that are his; and, Let every one who names the name of [the] Lord withdraw from iniquity."

    John ch 5 v 25 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, that an hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that have heard shall live. 26 For even as the Father has life in himself, so he has given to the Son also to have life in himself, 27 and has given him authority to execute judgment [also], because he is Son of man. 28 Wonder not at this, for an hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs shall hear his voice, 29 and shall go forth; those that have practised good, to resurrection of life, and those that have done evil, to resurrection of judgment. 30 I cannot do anything of myself; as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous, because I do not seek my will, but the will of him that has sent me. 31 If I bear witness concerning myself, my witness is not true. 32 It is another who bears witness concerning me, and I know that the witness which he bears concerning me is true."

    Revelation ch 22 v 14 "Blessed [are] they that wash their robes, that they may have right to the tree of life, and that they should go in by the gates into the city. 15 Without [are] the dogs, and the sorcerers, and the fornicators, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and every one that loves and makes a lie."

    Revelation ch 22 v 21 "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ [be] with all the saints."

    1. Anon 13 Jan at 15:36

      Anyone can quote random passages from the Bible, please explain the purpose of your post

      Why have you quoted the passages you have ?
      What is the aim of your post ?
      What is your application of these passages ?
      In what context are you quoting these passages ?

      These things are critical when applying Gods Word the Bible, because it is all too easy for those with a sectarian separatist agenda to misapply, twist and abuse Gods Word in support of their particular ‘exclusive’ agenda. Answers to the questions above allow readers (or hearers) chance to “test the spirits to see if these things are true” and to “search the scriptures like the bereans” to ensure the application is appropriate and in line with Biblical truth.

      Christian Blessings

  34. hello there dear people, non-brethren, ex-brethren, brethren etc etc.
    It would appear from the various ramblings on this site that there are some ex-brethren unhealthily obsessed with the wrongs of brethren.
    whilst i can understand from personal experience why through mistreatment/mishandling of one form or another, why one would have feelings of ex-bitterness and resentment towards brethren, the fact remains my dear bitter ex-brethren that you are hurting yourselves far more than you will ever hurt the brethren.

    for your own sakes and for your family and friends accessible to you, get on with your lives and enjoy what you have in life today. Leave others to enjoy their lives with whatever path they choose to take.

    to keep attacking something you have left makes one wonder if sanity is departing/ed and if that person really wants to go back to the brethren but can't find a way through pride?

    peace - bro's n sistas

  35. Dear peace- bro's n sistas
    You say you have experienced mistreatment/mishandling of one form or another.
    Mishandling is in my opinion a somewhat euphemistic way of describing destroying someone's family relationships.On this website you can read personal accounts of the callous unfeeling and certainly unchristian way in which persons have been treated by the Exclusive Brethren. Some have no family outside of the EB.
    It is flippant and insensitive to advise such persons to get on with their lives when in some instances those lives have been irreparably damaged by the impact of the physical separation doctrines and practices of the EBs. Has your life been affected in such a way?
    The Exclusive Brethren gave an undertaking to the Charity Commissioners in Great Britain that in future their separation doctrine would be moral and not physical. There is very little evidence that there has been such a change of thinking or practice.
    Are you aware that this physical separation practice was introduced
    by J Taylor Junior who ended up dying from alcoholism? Should so called Christians be following and continuing the unbiblical teachings of such a discredited man?
    Why would someone who has found real Christianity want to return to something which some have described as a cult?

  36. Isnt it so odd how most of the PBCC members commenting specifically say they are NOT PBCC members? I happen to be a PBCC member, and I can spot the vernacular from a mile away. I learned some time ago that if I have to lie to prove a point, ive got some soul searching to do.