Wednesday, 20 May 2015

This Monday's PBCC Prayer Meeting Agenda


  1. One word for that. SELFISH. Where is the public benefit in that outlook? If you're not Christian, forget it.

    1. All above board 12:34. Clearly a reference to Islamic state's evil intention to murder every christian and jew on earth if they were to be allowed to do so.
      Prayer against such deeds cannot be deemed as selfish. Neither can prayer for good government be deemed selfish either.
      The public includes all of us.
      lf there is anything lacking, from the list just write it down and pray.

    2. Anonymous20 May 2015 at 14:45

      But the Islamic state, may all feel that it is well within their own right. To be exercising their own freedom of faith to be actively involved in murdering and wiping out Christians .Christians of whom they will have judged to be the evil infidels

      And Christian's such as yourself, may all totally disagree with these judgement's of their's.And would also claim it to be extremely harmful unto yourselves.

      However exclusive brethren will happily cause harm, unto others.It constantly happens whenever families are being divided, through the ongoing issues of separation.

      But such is the ongoing cost of all these kind of harmful divisive type attitudes.

      One thing is for most certain. That is that the charity commission, should not be inclined, to ever agree to see any these these type-groups as of being any kind of public-benefit

      The Islamic State. The Exclusive Brethren.Kim Jung-Un.The Westbro Baptist.

      Can not be considered, as being, a public-benefit

      All these groups are all publicly-divisive type groups.Thus how come they are also all far more of a public-cost unto our society.For all these groups will continually cause society a certain amount of cost.By all constantly preaching their chosen forms of separation, and bigotry.Rather than them ever being of any real public-benefit, to society

      So no ,"all is not above board", Anonymous20 May 2015 at 14:45

  2. Yeah, stop all the childish comments about the peebs. Give it a rest

  3. "All Above Board:"

    Your comment did not make reference to the prayers that are about PBCC internal affairs, mainly involving finance.

    Also of interest is the prayer to arms from an organisation that used to produce conscientious objectors in the fight against the Nazis. I assume this prayer excludes any PBCC members having boots on the ground?

    In PBCC speak, "good government" usually implies right wing, reactionary government. Segments of the above prayer list might be construed as UKIP at prayer. PBCC support of the Conservatives is the lesser of "evils"; if any other more right party had a chance of election, rest assured that the PBCC would be available for leaflet distribution. One UKIP candidate in the recent GE was told by a PBCC member he had her prayers. He lost.This is not too cast a slur on UKIP, who, to be fair, are rather too inclusive for PBCC tastes.

    Perhaps we should pray that the PBCC desist from the wrecking of families, the spread of misinformation that they are a "mainstream church" and that they recognise their sins of the past, and the present, and acknowledge their transgressions. Shall we add this to the list?

  4. 18:13
    1 Did anyone suggest we ought to be commenting on PBCC internal or financial affairs?
    2 Do you not have a life of your own and run your own affairs as you see fit?
    3 Do you have anything on your own prayer list?
    4 Do you recognise your own sins and transgressions can be forgiven or are forgiven?
    5 Did you know that the PBCC helped to hide many jews from the Nazi state?
    6 Do you know Christian conscience is acknowledged by western governments and is an integral component of a practicing Christian?
    7 Are you aware that you cannot claim to know Christ, whilst attacking other Christians?
    8 Do you know God hates a treacherous spirit?
    9 Do you know that from the point of finding forgiveness in your own life, you cannot be an accuser?
    10 Do you know that grace is available to you amd me right now?

  5. 14.01

    1. Nobody suggested it, as far as I know, but we appear to be doing so.
    2. Yes.
    3. Why assume everyone has a "prayer list"?
    4. There are little sins and big sins. Smaller sins tend not to damage other lives.
    5. The PBCC have publicised this; they were in fact Exclusive Brethren who participated in a village effort in France. This was before the invention of the PBCC and when they had some normality and respectability. A noble deed and part of the whole community. The participants probably would be embarrassed by the present form of the PBCC and the hijacking of their brave action.
    6.Nothing wrong with a Christian conscience, especially when it is consistent. However, it is objectionable to come from a history of non violence to then exalt men and women to war; also hypocritical, if you are excluded.
    7. No attack on Christians taking place here.
    8. Those who do not tell the truth (or misinform) are an abomination.
    9. Ridiculous assertion; if there is wrong doing, or immoral behaviour, then there will be accusers.
    !0.You can always make a fresh start, but best to turn away from the errors of the past or else there is no commitment to change.

    Hope this helps.

  6. I'm not 18:13, but here are some thoughts:

    1 Did anyone suggest we ought to be commenting on PBCC internal or financial affairs?

    PBCC are a charity. Their finances are public property and must be open to public scrutiny.

    2 Do you not have a life of your own and run your own affairs as you see fit?

    I do. Mercifully it’s not entangled with your lot. Remember PBCC are a charity and must run their affairs in an open, honest and transparent manner.

    3 Do you have anything on your own prayer list?

    Sure do.

    4 Do you recognise your own sins and transgressions can be forgiven or are forgiven?

    Sure do. What’s that to do with this list?

    5 Did you know that the PBCC helped to hide many jews from the Nazi state?

    So did loads of others. Remember, pride is sinful.

    6 Do you know Christian conscience is acknowledged by western governments and is an integral component of a practicing Christian?

    I wish that were true.

    7 Are you aware that you cannot claim to know Christ, whilst attacking other Christians?

    You have a scripture to prove that, or is that one of your ‘leaders’ sayings? BTW are the PBCC Christians or cultists?

    8 Do you know God hates a treacherous spirit?

    And a lying spirit and a greedy spirit and an adulterous spirit and so on. Recognise any of those?

    9 Do you know that from the point of finding forgiveness in your own life, you cannot be an accuser?

    Sure you can. It’s up to Christians to expose dishonesty and unrighteousness.

    10 Do you know that grace is available to you amd me right now?

    Sure do.

  7. To Anonymous 21 May at 14:01

    5 Did you know that the PBCC helped to hide many jews from the Nazi state?

    Yes, but if it was 18 to 20 years later they would have been withdrawn from for eating with them, or even having them in their home.

  8. Why has a meeting opened in Rome? Why are folks from Novi having to move there too? Are they lion food for the Coliseum? Having acquired a taste for Christians, the lions would probably turn vegetarian on the introduction of PBCC members!

    Leonardo K Octavious

  9. That's a very sad fact.

    Then thinking about 8, do you also think that God also hates the hypocritical spirit the PBCC are displaying here?

  10. Me thinks best to leave PBCC in peace.
    They have a habit of winning and running rings round the baddies

    1. But aren't the PBCC the baddies How confusing!

    2. Running rings around "baddies" ? Rather, using wealth and stealth to spread misinformation that the PBCC is a mainstream church and to dupe a generally liberal and tolerant establishment that to criticise the PBCC is an attack on Christianity,. It is not; rather more of a defence of genuine Christianity .

  11. Did you know that you when you read the "news" and accept it as fact that you are gullible? Nobody is perfect and writing off PBCC in its entirety is equivalent to writing off humanity because of Hitler, Stalin, etc. Hello? Get a life.

    1. 23.22

      I am not sure I understand the logic of your comment; however, it is true that not all published material represent the true state of affairs. It depends, to some extent, on the quality and standards of the publication.

      If, however, you are alluding to the recent exposures of the PBCC, in The Times newspaper, I believe this publication represents the more respectable end of the spectrum. It is not known for outlandish or extremist views. Furthermore, the articles have all been substantiated, correctly sourced and will strike a chord with many commentators here. If not true, we await the litigious PBCC to launch a legal challenge

      Lastly, I doubt whether anyone is writing off the PBCC in it's entirely, since the sect, or cult, is populated by trapped and indoctrinated people. So we cannot "write off" a small section of society, on a whim. However, we can criticise the facts that that the PBCC causes harm and division, is not a public benefit and, thinking of your reference to Hitler, Stalin etc, is under the control of a mercenary, ill informed despot and assorted businessmen.

      Hope this helps.

  12. I know that these Exclusive Brethren (now the PBCC) have followed an exclusive worshipping pattern since 1848, but I don't understand why they don't love their neighbour inclusively, as they love themselves.

    I've recently written and sent this paper to some members of the PBCC. If you have time to read it, I hope you'll find it useful.

    The biblical command to love your neighbour as yourself has always been inclusive.

    After the decree of Cyrus the Great in 538 BC some of the deported people of Israel decided to return to Jerusalem from their exile in Babylon. These returnees valued the documents which we know as the Torah, the Pentateuch, which included a Leviticus scroll where in our chapter 19:18 this command first occurs. (See Nehemiah 8:1-12.)

    We know that the returning priest-scribe Ezra took a rather exclusive view and expressed his concern about the mixed marriages that were occurring between returnees and the peoples of the lands - Israelites who lived in the country areas away from Jerusalem and who had not been exiled - and neighbouring Canaanites. (See Ezra 9:1-4.) The command to love your neighbour as yourself, however, required them to treat their fellow rural Israelites as one with them, “as yourself”. People returning from Babylon together with Israelites who had remained in the land were followers of the same God, and they were to love each other without erecting barriers between themselves.

    Crucially and challengingly, the command to love was extended to outsiders as well: “The alien who resides with you shall be to you as the citizen among you; you shall love the alien as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.” (Leviticus 19:34.) The Torah-taught people of Israel were to love their own and the outsider equally.

    Jesus had very interesting things to say about this commandment - see Mark’s Gospel 12:28-34 and Matthew 5:43-48, as well as the story he told about a merciful Samaritan, which is recorded in Luke 10:25-37.

    In the last letter we have from the apostle Paul he comments clearly on the Leviticus command - see Romans 13:8-10. According to Paul, all the commandments were “summed up in this word, ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ Love does no wrong to a neighbour; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.”

    Love that is inclusive of fellow-believers, the outsider and your enemy meets all the social requirements of God’s law.

    The priestly authors of Leviticus introduced our chapter 19, in the so-called 'Holiness Code' section of their scroll, with the resounding words, "You shall be holy, for I the LORD your God am holy" (19:2); and they proceed to deal with aspects of both ritual and moral law for the people of Judahite Israel under that banner headline.

    It's important to differentiate between the ritual and moral aspects of the law as the scribes laid them down in the mid first millennium BC. The ritual law was concerned with the cultic observances of the people - think of the layout and practices of the Tabernacle and the Jerusalem Temple - and that involved provision for sacrifice, the removal of impurity and a degree of separation - for example, only the High Priest could enter the Holy of Holies once a year. The moral law, though, embraced everyone in their ordinary day-to-day domestic and social lives.

    In the terms of Leviticus, Jesus and the apostle Paul, it is an infringement of God's moral law and therefore a defiance of God's holiness not to love your fellow believer, your outsider neighbour, the stranger in your midst and (according to Jesus) your enemy "as yourself". Love must be inclusive.

    1. Joan dear, You are waffling again, it might be fine waffle, but the
      sooner you admit this is a Pyramid of Piffle, the better.

      Do you really think a history lesson will end the path of separation?
      Once God sets something in motion, there is no turning back.
      One gets the acute feeling that you accept the notion that evil and good
      do walk together. An Utterly false position of terrible deceit.
      Whilst you are in such position, you remain completely
      at the whim of academia which has nothing of substance to offer.
      An academic evaluation doesn't equate to moral values or fitness.
      The only fitness that God requires is to feel your need of him
      and to accept his word. His word is living and current today.
      You cannot quote Paul, if you reject 2 Tim 2.

      You say - "Love must be inclusive" when in fact love is NOT
      inclusive of evil. Never was and never could be. That's a big fat lie
      and the enemy is very good at it because he's used the same deceit
      since the day of Adam and Eve.
      God is also not mocked and he is not a liar. He is love and he is truth.
      To insist on including evil, equates to mocking God.

      Moreover, love is separate from evil. To be honest, we
      can only arrive at the truth laid out so clearly in 2 Tim 2.
      Waffle until the cows come home and waffle in the schools of
      opinion until the end of time, but waffling will not change God's mind.

      One can only conclude therefore that such an academic approach is
      plainly a lovely smoke screen to deliberately divert people from
      what God is expecting and demanding in these closing days.

      A sinner saved by the Grace of God and not by a Pyramid of Piffle.

    2. Yet the Scriptures show us that separation from evil does not mean separating from all who name the name of Jesus as their Lord. But the EB/PBCC do this very thing and bring shame on the Body of Christ in doing this. Furthermore church discipline resulting in exclusion was only ever for persistent serious sin such as being guilty of persistent sexual immorality, greed, idolatry, slander, drunkenness or dishonesty . Yet the EB/PBCC have corrupted it to an almost whim based casual falling out over doctrine. And some of it the most trivial and almost laughable stuff like remote controls for garage doors. Or mobile phones then, but strangely not now. Or fax machines then, but not now. Or computers then, but not now. If it wasn't so damaging it would be laughable.

    3. The patronising commentator 19.46

      "Evil" is not mentioned in Joan's comment. Your enemy is not necessarily evil, but someone you perceive as the enemy, for whatever reason; it could be some misunderstanding or something trite. Therefore, the PBCC shunning others, even family, if they are not members of their organisation is an example of not loving your neighbour. Thus you defy God and it may not be a given that you are "saved" according to Christian faith and beliefs.

      Regarding Anon's comment at 16.50, it is interesting to note that PBCC leaders and members, at various times, have been guilty of all the "serious" crimes requiring exclusion. It is therefore even more risible that exclusion is practised for a series of "offences" that then become acceptable and integrated into PBCC lives, especially over matters concerning the creation of business and wealth.

  13. Thank you, Joan, for setting out, yet again, an informative and concise comment, striking at the heart of the deeply flawed PBCC doctrine which has caused so much damage over decades.

  14. 'Once God sets something in motion, there is no turning back.'

    Ah, I see. Like when God said No fax machines, no computers, no mobile phones, no Limited Liability Companies and Sisters must wear a headscarf when outside at all times?

    What a Torrent of Tosh

    1. 06:56 May I ask if you accept God's will?
      God's will is active and not static, so he can also make amendments to laws and intervene for as he sees fit. It might suit some to have Christianity nicely bound-up in a bundle of static rules, so they can just sit-back and be unfruitful. In fact, the word of God is living and takes account of the state of the world as it is today. The bible is not a set of rules made for our convenience. Being a real Christian WILL cost us something and involves letting go of the pride we find within ourselves.

      Electronic devices:
      As such technology emerges, it has to be handled in such a way which excludes evil, so it's not rocket science to understand it takes time to have the needed measures in place, which would prevent the user being harmed. Social media coming into the home is a very destructive force and so it is not surprising that Christian groups view it as anti-family and harmful. Indeed, it is very sad to see children staring at hand-sets instead of playing and interacting in a healthy way.
      Just look at such hateful material for one second and you have to admit it
      is against Christ. The TV is also full of images which are damaging and hateful to those of us that love Christ. Evil and Good cannot dwell together. We are thus compelled to conclude that Love is not inclusive of evil.

      "No turning back" ? Absolutely correct -
      When Jesus wrote with his finger on the ground, he wrote a new law which replaced the old. One can say in essence, it was an act of love to save man from the judgement deserved.
      That new law was in essence Grace and that grace is still serving us today.
      Some will of course rise-up and assert that God is changeless (he is) yet are not prepared to change from their sin and error. God's love and grace is changeless, but that means we have to be changed and adjusted by his word as it responds to this world's current state and use of technology.
      How is this technology being used and are our families being shielded from such evil that is being sent into a nation's homes?
      So sitting on your hands and saying we should not do anything and include evil is plain stupid.

      Joan is completely wrong to assume we are just going to include evil
      and allow our families be thrown to the wolves. It is not going to be allowed into our homes and lives. That's not "tosh", just plain common sense.

    2. 13.02

      A few points: how do you know the activity of God's mind; what are your references for His word regarding technology?

      You say the Bible is not a set of rules made for our convenience. Why then do the PBCC so slavishly follow the bits that suit, even when they are guilty of misinterpretation?

      Regarding technology, I am sure you know that the young, including the PBCC, are familiar with ways to access whatever they wish on their devices. A computer, smart phone or tablet has far more "damaging images" than the controlled output of TV or the radio. Which is worse "Gardener's Question Time" on BBC R4 (forbidden to PBCC) or soft porn on a device which is in the hands of the PBCC?

      Once again, Joan did not say evil was included, you put words in her mouth, to suit.

      To be blunt, your edifice has cracked, you have allowed technology into your homes and lives; you access this blog and everything you desire. You cannot operate your businesses without technology; that is why you use it. TV and radio has no earning capacity; you don't need it, therefore it is one remaining piece of technology you are happy to bang on about. Did you know that many non PBCC people don't have TV, or never watch it? You are not unique at all.

      What is this "evil" entering non PBCC homes? It sounds like the thoughts of someone who is paranoid. Are PBCC homes so different from many others? There are, no doubt, famil squabbles, bad temper, probably bad language, materialism and selfishness There are other human weaknesses, including alcoholism.

      Families thrown to the wolves? Ridiculous sensationalism, exaggeration and not common knowledge, or sense.

    3. Mmmm social media. PBCC kids get kicked out for having a Facebook page, yet the fireman feeding new fangled RRT, made up entirely of PBCC members, has it's own Facebook presence.......Explain.

      The scripture ( we go by scripture of course, but only when it suits us, or when we have subtly changed it to fit our requirements 2Tim2;20) about a sister having her head covered. Has God really changed that? Strange if He has, because that is one of the more normal requirements of other Christian churches.

      Calling a news reporter a c**t is really not acceptable in any religion, least of all one that prides itself in being better behaved than the others.

  15. Does anyone within the PBCC organisation know who murdered Esther Soper of Plymouth? Does anyone in the PBCC even care?

    The murder remains unsolved, just like many other problems caused by the iniquitous PBCC.

  16. "what God is expecting and demanding in these closing days".

    Define "closing days" without mentioning "one day" and "a thousand years", because that has no meaning whatsoever for anybody with a glimmer of healthy intellect. I defy you to do it without "waffling until the cows come home". Go on, what exactly does it mean?

    "academia which has nothing of substance to offer".

    This brings to mind dear old Sir Patrick Moore, who when asked about his opinion of moon landing conspiracy theorists said this: "their ignorance of science is so complete that it is pointless to argue with them". Q.E.D.

  17. Could a PBCC member, or anyone else, please answer this question. Are only PBCC members saved for eternity in heaven?

    Thank you

  18. !3.02...... Now that you are here, could you answer the above very simple, non academic question, please?

    Thank you

  19. Some interesting comments here...

    None can deny that the media has a tendency to undermine many of our traditional
    values. The technology available, facilitates a great deal of trash and
    harm to be channeled into our homes and therefore I'm compelled to
    agree that certain devices and apps should be completely shunned.
    It's very sad to be a witness to what is happening to society and we should pray
    that God may intervene to stop the rot. Technology can be used for the benefit
    of mankind, but we also see that it can be used to destroy the good things God has provided us with. Family values must be protected and promoted.

    Dr. Rashid, MD

  20. What I like most about the PBCC is it has different definitions of good and evil to other mainstream churches. I have to admit, I like a good drink. I also like to play around with naked women, whether or not they are other men's wives. I don't 'beat' women but if I did, that would be OK too. I know all this from the example, and ministry, of 'Our Beloved', James Taylor Junior, a pure and holy man who led the dear brethren from around 1959-1970. I couldn't behave like this if I were a member of other mainsteam churches, as they might consider it evil. So the PBCC is the place for me!


  21. The Questioner28 May 2015 at 07:54

    One thing I've observed from the occasional interventions by EB/PBCC people is that they parachute in, make some pretty odd comments, but theNdecline ever to answer a straight question. They then disappear.

    I wonder why?

    Perhaps one of them might respond!

  22. "Calling a news reporter a c**t is really not acceptable in any religion, least of all one that prides itself in being better behaved than the others".

    Disagree completely. It's totally acceptable in the Exclusive Brethren, but that's probably the only religion it is acceptable in. As RLS said, JTJr was an alcoholic womaniser who used vile language, and promoted the beating of women and messing around with other men's naked wives. How come these holier-than-thou peebs have never commented on this? Embarrassed, are you? So you should be! Calling news reports c*nts is the pot calling the kettle back. I believe you are despicable individuals and I wish I believed in the same God and Bible as you do as I would have the satisfaction of knowing you would burn in hell for all eternity! Thank Christ (or anyone handy) that the Exclusive Brethren are but an insignificant proportion of the world population and there is so much good out there it will be able to cover the damage caused by those Exclusive Brethren c*nts many time over.

  23. Pray for a new aeroplane for Mr Bruce that can split families from 10,000 feet.