Wednesday, 1 April 2015

Response to the PBCC's response. A more truthful response.

This was sent in to me by an Ex-Exclusive Brethren friend following the recent Times newspaper articles and the subsequent PBCC responses which can be found on the PBCC website.


The response from the Peebs (PBCC) in England needs to be addressed, as we see again and again the deceit and outright lies of the PBCC/Exclusive Brethren as they battle to retain their tax free status and Government handouts for their separatist schools.


The worst part about this are their barefaced lies, which are always part of their complete delusion. Let's take a few of their responses - AND ANSWER THEM HONESTLY. From someone who suffered at their hands. Trust me - there are plenty of us around the world. 


3. PBCC ‘shun outsiders’ This is untrue, as a multitude of our non-brethren friends in business, schools and local communities would confirm



They shun and have shunned people in the world since 1959. If you had relatives not in their church - you were banned from ever seeing them again. How do I know? My own mother who was born an Anglican but married a Brethren member before their strict rules of 'Separation' came into force and was told to have nothing to do with her own family ever again or be thrown out. The grief of that followed her the rest of her life. She went on to lose 4 of her own children as well who were thrown out for non- compliance. Hundreds if not thousands left the church over this very issue - If you were caught out seeing your non- PBCC relatives you were withdrawn from at that time.  


Regarding worldly people - 'non-brethren friends' as they refer to them DO NOT EXIST! They are not allowed to form friendships outside of the church period. If you want the official word on it from their leader - it is available. 


What does their LEADER- Bruce Hales - say about worldly Friends?

-"We want our friends amongst the Brethren" - (not outside of it)

-"it leads to trouble to have friends in the world."

-"worse than a bane - they're a seduction."

-"can't have connections with persons outside of this 'fellowship' "

-"great day when they don't want you anymore."


Even in their own ranks- special friendships are not allowed- "we are not to select our own (friends) let God provide them"



They argue that people who do business with them - are therefore 'friends'. Show us one person - anywhere in the world- who has been to a social occasion - a BBQ - a dinner- a holiday - or just had a cup of coffee WITH them. JUST ONE! Show us one person who has sat at their kitchen table and enjoyed a cup of tea or a sandwich WITH them. For a start - they are banned from eating with anyone in the world and have been for 56 years. They are also banned from mixing with the world. 


4. “Strict disciplinary practices” PBCC disciplinary practices follow the teachings of the Bible, as outlined in Schedule 2 ‘Faith in Practice’, -approved by the Charity Commission. Discipline is rare, and used only as a last resort.


FACT: Disciplinary action is NOT rare! It might be rare at the moment while they get their ducks in a row with the Charity Commission and other instrumentalities - but some of their churches lost 25%-30% - if not more - of their numbers to unflinching discipline. A few years ago you could get the bullet and lose your family over a computer. Or a mobile phone. Or a raft of other things like not being totally compliant. If I take my own example and the church I went to - almost every single family lost children - forever- due to strict disciplinary action. My sin was refusing to work for them anymore because they were rotten to work for. For that I lost my parents, siblings and any inheritance. For life!


6. ‘Cult’ accusation The PBCC is a mainstream Christian church.


Rubbish! It is a cult! If it were mainstream it would have something called lots of followers. How many Anglicans are there in the UK? 25 million baptised members. Or Catholics. 5.7 million. Take the Seventh Day Adventists for that matter. Worldwide they have 17.2 million followers. Even the Jehovah's Witnesses can boast 230,000 adherents in the UK! 

What have the PBCC got? 42,000 at a pinch - worldwide. Hardly 'mainstream'. But I did say they were deluded. 


7. Brethren life restricted & controlled PBCC members find their lives to be full, varied and rewarding.


Utter bullshit! They are restricted and controlled. Their every move is monitored. You simply cannot do as you like in this church. They have a book of rulings by the "Great Man' Bruce Hales on every topic under the sun. And much of it deals with what they are - and are not allowed -to do. If they are not controlled- how come they are not allowed to take a holiday when they feel like one - especially to a place where they don't have a church. It is verboten!


8. Travel is limited. "PBCC members travel widely, often overseas, for Church, family, business and educational reasons."


Well let's just cut to the chase on this one. What does their Great Man Hales say on the subject -

- "people moving around pleasing themselves - where's the element of control?"

- "end of the year - stay home unless you're sent -otherwise it is just worldly"

- "None of us should go away unless we're sent"

- "cannot go to countries where there are no Brethren - how could we justify it"


They (a selected few) might travel widely - but it's generally to go to another of their churches. Hales also goes on about coming home with lots of reports on the church services and not a pile of photographs.


10. Large cash reserves for ‘end of world’ "This is complete nonsense."


True. They don't use words like 'end of world' and the only cash reserves Hales wants - as well as his more recent predecessors -is their own stash - and their relatives and closed circle friends'stash. Hales has amassed a fortune. They can never be honest about it because it would be embarrassing to reveal just how much. Not only do they give him millions themselves - but he has multiple businesses all set up to milk the lucrative Brethren and their businesses for every available cent. Even if they want a computer - it must be bought from UBT - his PBCC Business empire. 


11. ‘Rapture’ in 2022 The Lord Jesus said “ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.” Matthew 25: 13


Let's be honest. They have been rabbiting on about the second coming for years now. Every now and again - they say things like - "it will happen soon - I feel it." But as we all know- it ain'thappened yet.


13. The ‘money trail’ diagram This diagram is a misrepresentation including many inaccurate estimations, assumptions and spurious claims. The Gospel Hall Trusts are recognised by the Valuation Office Agency as public places of religious worship and are therefore (like all public places of religious worship such as synagogues and churches) entitled to claim relief from liability on non-domestic rates. This relief is not linked to their charitable status.

Note to Valuation Office Agency. Check whose name is on the title of these halls. Got a feeling it says Hales, B.D. on every one.


14. 340 windowless meeting rooms across the country with security gates We protect our Gospel Halls, which have been paid for entirely by our members. Many Brethren Gospel Halls do have windows. For example, Blackborough End Meeting Hall. Kings Lynn.


Deceitful bastards! Let's take most of their churches as the example and not two in UK that have managed to find an obscure window in. Firstly I bet you can't see through them. Secondly- almost every single church of theirs in the world is windowless. Their big church in Sydney is windowless. As are all the others in that City. Their Big Church in Melbourne is windowless. As are all the others in this country. In America they are windowless. In Canada they are windowless. Reason? They don't want people looking in. And they definitely don't want people looking out. 


15. The Brethren believe the rest of the world is evil Like millions of other parents, PBCC parents want to protect their young people from damaging influences.


I love the way they immediately align evil in the world with the protection of their children. Very convenient. But when one of their own was molesting small boys when I was a kid - they turned a blind eye and did nothing to help these kids. When this was raised with Hales himself - years later - he continued to do nothing about it - or to even discuss it. Trust me when I say - there is plenty of evil in the PBCC - just the same as there is in the world.  Weirdos, pedophiles, adulterers - you name it. They use this excuse however to perpetuate their desire for separation. 


16. Children move out of homes when parents shut up "Shutting up is rare. It is the choice of the parents if their children move to family or friends. If older teenagers decide to move out temporarily it would be at their own prerogative and with the full consent of the parents."

Again - complete rubbish. While they might have curtailed their love of shutting up momentarily until all this fuss dies down - they will shut people up in a heartbeat and take their kids off them in the most surreptitious way. They have been known to send children interstate so that a parent cannot get at them easily. When they shut up both parents- they have some trouble accessing or influencing young kids. But older teenage kids would be strongly encouraged to get out of the family home. 


There is enough court history in most countries dealing with the run around they give a parent who wants access to - or custody of - their kids. I have seen men driven to desperation and destitution over this very issue. Another trick is to then barrage the children with indoctrination on how evil the erring, 'shut-up' parent is - so that when the poor bugger does get access- the kids refuse to see him - or her. Look on You Tube if you want examples of this. They are there and represent way more accurately the truth on this issue. 


17. Following CC decision, ‘nothing has changed’ Nothing has changed in Holy Scripture, nor will it ever change, but there has been a renewed committal and putting into practise of fairness and compassion.

Rubbish! They have concocted a few things to make themselves look better - like pretending to be a charity. But they are not a charitable people and have been in that mindset for over 50 years. How about setting up a charity that assists the thousands of people they have hurt as a direct result of their own actions? It will never happen. They like things where they can make a fuss- take some photos - and then run. Like making sandwiches for firefighters - or shoveling snow. But set up an aid post in Bangladesh or help out at a drug shelter or feed the homeless? Get outa here! As regards fairness and compassion - well they screwed over several mates of mine as well as members of my family and we haven't heard a word. So empty words as usual from the PBCC.


18. The 76 slide presentation "This was done by an individual member and did not meet with general approval."


Trust me on this. Nobody does anything publicly without express permission from the highest source and I don't mean God. Nobody is allowed to act as an individual. Nobody - unless it's someone being reckless like one of their own being faced with a News Cameraman, as was evidenced on more than one occasion in Australia - would dare do something that 'exposes' them publicly, without the permission of an elder or the Big Man himself. When they tried to influence voting in Australia (and New Zealand and Canada ) by taking out ads in newspapers and producing flyers - they did it with the express instructions of Hales - and when caught out - he said - they were 'individuals' exercising their own rights to express political opinions. Funny- they aren't allowed to vote! It is forbidden! So why get involved in politics if you can't do what the rest of your country must do?


19. Letter read out about helping Conservatives False. No such letter was read out.

But I bet it was widely circulated!


20. ‘secretive Christian sect’ The PBCC website gives details of our services and beliefs.

Yup. The new website. As fictional a piece of work as you will ever see. Barbara Cartland could not have done better. What they don't say is - that a decade ago you would be thrown out for having a website. A fax machine was 'a tool of the devil.' But they then go on to insult a lot of people they 'dealt' with by having photos on that website of happy families playing on beaches and flying kites. Well I know of one family that was thrown out because someone thought they saw them picnicking on a beach. Sadly - rather than verify the truth - they destroy somebody's life. Today they do this to try and appear- 'Normal'. But they are anything but normal. 



21. Exclusive Brethren struck a deal with the Charity Commission’ False. "The Charity Commission reached their decision independently after careful investigation and examination of all the evidence."

And they cocked it up! What on earth do they need to know that was not supplied to them in spades. It is as though they too refer to people like the PBCC themselves. "Disaffected members' is an old favourite. A wise man might reckon a deal was done. 


22. brethren have lived in secretive communities, isolating themselves from the rest of society. "False. PBCC members live in ordinary residential areas and interact with society in business and other areas"


Sure they live in suburbs like everybody else. They don't get much choice. That said they must live in areas where they are told to live. Fact. They must live in separate dwellings and not be connected - even by a joint sewerage pipe (believe it or not) and do NOT interact with people in the same way as normal people interact with people! Don't believe me? Well invite your local Brethren family over for a BBQ. Or a dance. Let me know how many turn up. They are forbidden to go to concerts, or the movies - or a normal sporting event. As for interacting in business- sure- they'll sell you something. And they do buy a pint of milk and lots of grog. So if that's interacting - then fair enough. But they still isolate themselves from what most consider as a normal interactive lifestyle.


But don't take my word for it. Here's what their leader says-

Regarding neighbours -"you have got to be friendly with (them) , but you don't have to have communion with them, so you don't form friendships". 


As regards 'interacting with people in society - he says -

Regarding their company - "Don't stay in it, don't demean yourself, it won't do you any good."

"(You) can be in it (the world) without being in the company of the world. Cut your links with the world, they'll drag you down into anti-Christian company".

He goes on to say that the PBCC members need to be in the company of 'broken people'. That's how they refer to themselves - which basically means they have surrendered their own ability to think for themselves.  


  1. I'm concerned about the lack of conventional good manners among the Hales Exclusive Brethren. They seem to have poor communication skills. Perhaps it's because on 24 April 2006 Bruce D Hales told his followers, "See, you come in touch with worldly people, if you get a little too close to them, you'll have some sense of defilement. See, our beloved brother used to counsel us, and it's good counsel for young people. Don't talk to them about anything else except what the subject you want to talk to them about."

  2. I am personally offended by the heading on the first of the PBCC's denials which states 'EXTENSIVE AND UNRELIABLE ARTICLE BY THE TIMES BASED ON UNRELIABLE AND DISGRACED SOURCES'

    As a contributor to the article, this statement infers that I am 'unreliable and disgraced'. I would like the PBCC to show me evidence of either characteristic.

    Mark R Elliott

  3. I believe that there website is totally deceitful. I have seen a photo under there members stories showing a happy family with members invited from all over the world! 2 sons living close by are not invited and there is no mention of the fact that for 22 years there has no contact allowed with siblings. Original dispute was over use of a computer in a class at school, for this the priest said it would be hard ever to enter through the doors of their church again!!!!

    1. Shocking account of a discredited group, totally off the rails

  4. With you there Mark - 100% - to say that about you and all of us who spoke to the Times but in particular those are named is actually defamatory unless as you say, they can provide evidence.

  5. Reply below anti-peeb jihadists

  6. It's the extremist PBCC who are the jihadists. They are told to, "Go for jugular; go for the soft underbelly," in their ruthless attacks on the establishment!

  7. I thought this particular blog would have been inundated with posts from PBCC members (sometimes describing themselves as sympathisers) contradicting the evidence put forward here.
    However I suppose it is rather difficult to continue to argue against proven facts and well researched press coverage in a quality newspaper.

    1. I rather think they may have been told not to comment. In fact hardly anyone at the moment is commenting- not sure if that is because Laurie is not approving of posts - too busy perhaps or whether it is that no one is posting. It is eerily quiet!

    2. I think the GE is taking up some of our time; also there has been more interaction in the wider media and on social networking sites since The Times exposure.

  8. With a limited education with gaps in it - you have to think about stuff. They also have to actually make something up - because the TRUTH - is above! Go easy on them - they are not quick when faced with irrefutable evidence.