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Wednesday, 18 March 2015

Brethren in the Spotlight


From P.27 of today's Times newspaper;



17 comments:

  1. Damn! What could some of my followers be thinking to leak some of this stuff?? Do you want me to get you into Heaven or what??

    Brew Sales

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  2. It was those bastards turning up at our back door uninvited at least 12 years after we had left the EB that precipitated my dear wife's mental breakdown.

    Will this bring the same compassionate response from LJO?

    Mark R Elliott

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  3. The days of hiding behind 'just a few disaffected former members' are seriously over.

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  4. I am fascinated by the response to the Times Article the PBBC have posted on their website. Referring to their numbered points:

    3. Your non member friends may confirm but they are not aware of what you say about them behind their backs. I have seen and heard it. Members may well be polite and neighbourly but as outsiders you are still second class citizens to them.

    4. 'Discipline is rare'. Your faith requires disciplining of members??? - surely god forgives??? I am extremely uncomfortable with the idea that a religious belief requires the disciplining of followers.

    5. The PBBC are correct that there is nothing illegal about individuals choosing to help MPs. Interesting that the response should use the words 'illegal' and 'individuals'. So basically they did do what they were accused of, they know it, we know it but they believe it cannot be proven that that all of these 'individuals' who helped MPs were part of a concerted plan to influence the charities commission.

    6. The PBBC is not a cult. Below is the definition of a Christian cult:

    A Christian cult is a group that denies one or more of the fundamental truths of Christianity, while still claiming to be Christian.

    Perhaps someone more knowledgeable concerning the PBBC can advise if this statement applies to the PBBC.

    7. Deflection - fails to answer the charge. Oh and followers of David Koresh and Charles Manson also believed their lives to be full, varied and rewarding!

    8. Interesting that 'pleasure' is not one of the reasons stated for travel.

    14. Why don't the PBBC also provide a photo of a Gospel Hall without security gates?

    15. 'Like millions of other parents , PBBC parents want to protect their young people from damaging influences.' So basically, yes, you do believe the rest of the world is evil.

    16. 'Shutting up is rare'. So is murder but that does not make it acceptable. The irony the PBBC will miss is that in attempting to contest what happens to children during 'shutting up' they effectively admit to a cruel and barbaric practice.

    18. 'The 76 slide presentation was by an individual member and did not meet with general approval' Wow, this hideous document actually existed and worse it wasn't greeted with horror or incredulity or disgust just 'did not meet with general approval'. Well that's alright then.

    19. Letter to help conservatives was not read out. interesting that the response says 'read out' not 'no such letter existed'.

    22.'PBBC members interact with society in business and other areas.' Only when is to their profit, advantage or personal gain. I worked for a brethren business and they took separate lunch breaks and tea breaks, used separate toilets and generally avoided any form of interaction with non members except for business matters. That does sound like interacting with society to me.

    'PBBC members live in ordinary residential areas' there is a huge difference between living in a residential area and being part of the community.

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  5. I read somewhere that over 200 MPs wrote to the Charity Commission in favour of the EB / PBCC
    Their own rebuttal states 'Most MPs welcomed PBCC members and shared their concern about the PBCC’s potential loss of charitable status by the Charity Commission'

    As this was about the Preston Down Trust in Devon which would be registered in only 1 MP's constituency, it blows open the myth that you have to deal with your own MP and not direct with other MPs

    Could the supportive MPs be named, and then relentless lobbying commenced to ensure they are better educated

    I met a different MP recently and he appeared to have no idea of their detrimental harm that is still current now

    Ken

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    Replies
    1. 'As this was about the Preston Down Trust in Devon which would be registered in only 1 MP's constituency, it blows open the myth that you have to deal with your own MP and not direct with other MPs'

      That good sir is a great point and very well made.

      We are now being advised by Charity Commission that complaints against particular PBCC members should be made to the trustees of the trust responsible for that member. In other words, Charity Commission sees each individual trust as it's own entity. This alone shows a clear lack of understanding how the PBCC works, the one standard etc etc. It is very common knowledge that BDH holds a cudgel over all trusts and all Brethren members, indeed his name is included in all the trust deeds.

      So why were MP's all around the country lobbied on behalf of the Preston Down Trust? Was it because the PBCC knew that the future of every other PBCC trust in the UK stood or fell on that result?

      There is a certain duplicity here. On the one hand we now have to complain to the trust responsible for the problem we may have, but on the other hand all trusst run to the same strict regime and ordering of one foreigner, Bruce David Hales of Australia.

      Does this mean that despite his name being on the deeds of every trust, we are not able to complain to the Charity Commission about him as the trust responsible for him does not come under the jurisdiction of the UK Charity Commission?

      On a slightly different note, I complained to the Horsforth Gospel Trust of Leeds about a month ago and as yet have not even received an acknowledgement of it. Hence yet another complaint is being directed at William Shawcross by my MP, as Shawcross suggested in his letter to The Times this week.

      Mark R Elliott

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    2. I’m not sure that Mr Hales’s name is still on the Trust Deeds. I don’t remember where I read it, but someone recently said the Brethren had thought it better not to name him on the Deeds any more. It was too much like written proof that they are a cult defined by their allegiance to B. D. Hales.

      The advice about addressing your complaints to a particular Trust is probably necessary for legal reasons. If you were to complain generally to the Charity Commission that B. D. Hales’s dictates or the Brethren’s behaviour has not materially changed, then any Trust threatened with de-registration as a result could argue in court that they have no responsibility for the words or deeds of B. D. Hales or anyone else not in their local meeting, and I think the court would probably agree. The local trustees have legal control over who enters their building and when, so legally they are in a position to make local people, and only local people, live up to the statement of Faith in Practice on pain of exclusion. But if they just tolerate a congregation that consistently ignores the Faith in Practice statement, then they will have failed in their legal duties as Trustees and the Charity Commission could take action against them and their Trust.

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    3. From the Trust Deeds of Horsforth Gospel Hall as found on the Charity Commission website, which names Hales et al, and the spurious doctrine of 'minister of the Lord in the recovery'.

      It also claims their meetings are of a Christian character!!!!

      http://apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Showcharity/RegisterOfCharities/CharityFramework.aspx?RegisteredCharityNumber=700960&SubsidiaryNumber=0

      Charitable objects

      (I) The carrying on the service of God including the celebration of the Lord's supper gospel preachings readings on the holy scriptures and addresses on the word of God and other meetings of a Christian religious character according to the injunctions contained in the holy scriptures and the tenets and practices of those Christians forming part of a world-wide fellowship sometimes known as ..."The Brethren" who hold and practise the teachings of Christ and His apostles contained in the holy scriptures as expounded by His servants and ministers of the Lord in the recovery Mr J N Darby, Mr F E Raven, Mr J Taylor senior, Mr J Taylor junior, Mr J H Symington, Mr J S Hales, Mr B D Hales and those in succession after him and who are in fellowship with Mr B D Hales so long as he lives and after his death with any other person who for the time being is a successor as a minister of the Lord in the recovery. (Ii) any other charitable religious purposes connected with the brethren.

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  6. Bunch of deluded hell bound contributors to this blog site, it's just one step from darkness to light. If you had any idea of the sphere we are included in, you would do everything possible to return. Has anyone tried getting comments from those that have recently returned? I know one who features on the yellow ribbon campaign.
    I'm not suggesting you try to get back, but it's grave things posted on this site, and no more than 10% truth and the rest is twisted make believe to try to pacify your minds that you are happier now.

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    1. Anon 3rd April 18:55

      You say -
      “ Bunch of deluded hell bound contributors to this blog site, it's just one step from darkness to light. If you had any idea of the sphere we are included in, you would do everything possible to return”

      Response -
      Your clear implication is that ALL Christian truth, faith, salvation, knowledge of God & relationship with Christ Jesus, is ONLY to be found inside the Exclusive Brethren aka Plymouth Brethren Christian Church. What you are implying in your comments is utter deluded nonsense. A person can find Christian salvation in Christ without even attending any Church and certainly can hear the Word of God preached and taught in ANY Christian Church that follows the Bible and there are literally thousands of those outside the EB PBCC. Any person coming to faith in Christ is part of the Body of Christ, His Assembly, His Bride, a Christian does NOT have to be a part of the EB PBCC to be part of that, read your Bible.

      Furthermore, your comments utterly contradict your own PBCC EB website which admits that there are other Christians outside PBCC EB and there will be other Christians in heaven !

      In addition, why would anyone want to go back to an extremist sectarian cultish group which disobeys or contradicts vast swathes of the Bible, and which teaches –

      - separation between family members
      - alcoholism and immorality for leaders is ok
      - disvion from the rest of the body of Christ (all other Churches)
      - refuses to eat or drink with non members including all other Christians
      - lying, decit, falsehoods, spin etc is acceptable
      - follows so called ‘men of god’ leaders which is the same as popery
      - that the bible is NOT sufficient and that persons need ‘the ministry’ rules
      etc etc

      You say –
      “you would do everything possible to return”

      Response –
      You even contradict yourself because you then go on to say “I'm not suggesting you try to get back”

      You say –
      “but it's grave things posted on this site, and no more than 10% truth and the rest is twisted make believe to try to pacify your minds that you are happier now.”

      Response –
      Yes there are grave things posted on this site to expose the EB PBCC for what it really is, which is an extremist sectarian cultish group, preaching and practicing division. Rather than make sweeping assertions that “the rest is twisted make believe” it would be a little more credible if you give details and explain what you mean with examples

      I for one don’t need to “to pacify my mind that I am happier now”. As a Christian I am free of the sectarian extremist non biblical non Christian teachings & practices as expounded by the PBCC EB. I am free to worship, fellowship and have communion with genuine Christians in the rest of the Body of Christ and I am free to follow Christianity as Biblically taught, not as taught in ‘mens ministry’.

      Go back to such nonsensical, irrational, unchristian, inhumane, deluded, immoral, hypocritical, fearmongering, sectarianism !, No thanks.

      John

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    2. Yes Anon 3Apr 18:55, I communicate frequently with two people who have gone back (each returned to the EB/PBCC for family reasons; neither knows the other, as they live at opposite ends of the UK). On their return to the fold each of them were horrified at the increase in 'man worship' promulgated by BDH and his cronies. They find it INORDINATELY difficult to sit through meeting after meeting where the only thing droned on about ad nauseum is how wonderful Our Brother is. The only thing holding them in the cult is that their access to family is cut off if they leave.

      My mind is quite pacified that I'm in the right place thank you, well clear of the personality cult that is the EB/PBCC. Brethren have lost the ability to determine truth from lies, it seems to me, so you are hardly in a position to start flinging percentages around re the integrity of postings on this blog.

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    3. So what has happened to the required CC reforms? These people should be able to have a normal relationship with their families without having to rejoin the PBCC as a condition of that relationship.

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  7. I don't unchristian anybody, but you do unchristianise yourselves with lies against Gods work here on earth.

    You can't take the 4 gospels, and leave out Paul? Do you not think God can work today in the same way? Do you devalue God's work as ancient and no longer current. There are so many prophesies which are coming true at the current time, take the fall of Syria and destroying of the ancient treasures at this very moment.

    Yes I have Christian neighbours who would testify that there is more to being a good neighbour than sharing a cup of tea. That said if my neighbour was any other religion we would say he hasn't had the light, and still feed his cat while he's away, and check his safety- that goes for 95% of brethren to their neighbours.

    I had a customer who asked about our reaction to what's on the Web, I said i'll leave her to believe what she wants, the response ' I believe none of it, because I know you!'.

    Another large blue chip client will give brethren priority in business transactions, because 'they know we are what we say on the tin'

    This site has Judas written all over it, and genuine people in the wider community know that.

    The beauty of the fellowship is that it's like a family, everyone inside knows everything, and those outside know very little.

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    1. 'The beauty of the fellowship is that it's like a family, everyone inside knows everything'

      Yup. They come snooping round your home, make up stories about you when it suits, phone you constantly if not at the meeting, trash your house at breaks, chase mourners away from ex-PBCC member's burials, dig up stuff you've already confessed publically and make you confess it again sometimes leading to suicide (Anna Napthene)......It's why we left.

      No bigger Judas than Gordon Pollard. People were just too scared of him to say.

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    2. Anonymous 5 April at 07.05
      Sadly the Exclusive Brethren follow neither the gospels or Paul's ministry. They follow Men.
      Don't believe me! Read your own ministry. Rarely is there any exposition and application of the scriptures. Instead eulogising and almost deifying past leaders through referring to their past "ministries". Rarely is the Lord Jesus, His character and His glory spoken about.
      You are correct in your statement that those outside of your organisation know very little about what goes on inside. Perhaps that is just as well otherwise there would be many more articles in the press about EB conduct.
      However it is quite untrue to state that everyone inside knows everything. This statement apart from being impossible and incredulous is blatantly untrue. For many years the EB have operated a system where the main body of the fellowship have been kept tin the dark about important issues. For example following JT junior's infamous conduct and behaviour in Aberdeen in 1970 when those geographically distanced from Scotland were told they did not need to know what happened in the home, the so called ministry was never published and half-truths and downright lies were promulgated.
      The name on your "tin" has changed and so has what is inside it. 60 years ago the brethren had a good testimony and those outside knew what they stood for even if they thought the Brethren were too insular. Of course things were transparent then and anyone could come to "the meeting" without special permission.
      Judas betrayed the Lord. Those who saw the evil in the EB system and left did not.
      .

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