Tuesday, 17 February 2015

Frontline series by UBT


The Universal Business Team (UBT) are now into publishing History books.  The books appear to be large, heavy, expensively bound, profusely illustrated and now apparently run to at least 15 volumes.  The currently advertised volume describes itself as Vol. XV, although the narrator on a video advertisement refers only to “the six books and the CD set”.  Presumably the video was shot when there were only 6 volumes.  The books are accompanied by a set of audio CDs in which the text is professionally narrated.


The currently advertised volume has the title “On the Front Line. Veterans’ Memoirs and Wartime Experiences – an Extraordinary Collection from New Zealand”.  It has been produced by “The New Zealand Frontline Team.”  


On its back cover there is a quotation from the Darby translation of Psalm 91: 5-7 followed by an explanation of what the books are intended to do. 

“Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night, for the arrow that flieth by day,

For the pestilence that walketh in darkness, for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; [but] it shall not come nigh thee.”


It goes on to say something like, “These verses were an assurance for many soldiers that experienced the trials and tests of active military service during the war, and are a scriptural basis for the publishing of these books.  It is proposed that the publishing of these books will accurately record the memories of those who served in the armed forces and other relevant accounts and cover such experiences as

·         Witness to government 

·         Military training

·         Discipline of army life

·         Witness to fellow soldiers

·         Incidents of proving God’s mercy

·         Other interesting anecdotes”


The video advert for the series of books shows excerpts of documentary films shot during the Second World War, and photos taken during the war. The videos of soldiers marching are accompanied by music of a triumphalist, heroic flavour. The anecdotes recorded seem to be mainly Brethren anecdotes. The people who appear in the modern movie clips are nearly all Brethren women or children, the only exception being a man who drives dangerously while distracted by listening to his CD. 


The best part of the video advert is an interview with an elderly Brethren woman called Mrs Cox, who reminisces about the war years. She is the only one who emphasised that although some people have a glorified idea of war, nobody wants its horrors. It is too awful.  


The video says the books are “Safe, Educational and Motivational.”


You can watch the promotional video at http://ubteam.wistia.com/medias/cphxpz2zh1but now that non-Brethren know it is there, it might not be there for much longer. 


At the same site there are links to UBT sites where you can order the books, except that you can’t unless you have a password.  You need a password even to find out how much they cost.  So when I say the UBT are now into publishing, maybe “publishing” is not quite the right word for it.  


The books are evidently produced by Exclusive Brethren for Exclusive Brethren, are partly about Exclusive Brethren and are being marketed, as far as I can see, only to Exclusive Brethren. 


I wonder if we are also going to see special Brethren versions of other potentially controversial school subjects, such as biology, economics, geography, astronomy, current affairs, politics or comparative religion.  And what about ancient history?  That would be a difficult one, because according to many of the Brethren, ancient history never really happened: the Palaeolithic age and the billions of years before it didn’t actually exist, and the last 6000 years occurred exactly as described in the Bible. 


There is something vaguely unsettling about a special version of history for a closed group.  Why would the Brethren want to read a different version of history from non-Brethren?  What is “safe” about this series, and what by implication is “unsafe” about books written by professional historians?  In what sense are these books “Motivational”?  What will they motivate Brethren children to do?  


What are readers’ views on these questions?


  1. No doubt sub-titled "Potatoes I have peeled. 101 memories of a conscientious objector."

    What is it with these people? Next they'll be claiming some sort of affiliation with Christianity.


  2. Looks like another way to get 'the saints' to give to BDH's empire. Buy a book that no-one wants, so the profits accrued by UBT can be donated to a different BDH venture. As an example, maybe to RRT? You 'volunteer' (cough cough) to serve with RCT then have to pay to do the same by buying unwanted books.

  3. They've suddenly realised that hearing someone talk about something that makes a modicum of sense is actually quite interesting. UBT may well have unknowingly shot BDH in the foot on this one. Next step a BDH radio which only tunes in to a 'White List' of 'approved' programmes?

    You laugh? It's only what they did with computers.

    I do find it odd that they seem to dwell on death, disease, disaster and destruction in their reading material........as if there isn't enough of that in the meetings already! I s'pose in an extraordinarily dull life, they find it titillating.

    Maybe in the future we'll be seeing books written about PBCC members spending time in The Priory, serving time at Her Majesty's pleasure for molesting children and killing innocent 'worldlies' by dangerous driving or attending AA meetings for their chronic alcohol addictions.

    Shovelling snow, burning burgers and chasing fire engines.........My life in the RRT!

  4. Oh, it's so cringe-worthy - self adulation, for the Peebs by the Peebs.

    Were the two suited women going to work in a private-house high class hookers?

    And as for that odd looking, odd walking man in the Range Rover, I just wish it was a Police car he cut up pulling out. And then failed to observe the lights too! How many penalty points is that worth? No worry though, the Peebs are the highest court in the land, so no points, they can celebrate it instead!

  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

  6. These books were being published before I left in 2013 and are simply Brethren experiences during the war. They are only available to Brethren. Don't really think it's worth getting worked up about.

    1. Good for a laugh though!

    2. Freedom2013 says 'simply Brethren experiences during the war. They are only available to Brethren. Don't really think it's worth getting worked up about. '

      Isn't this at the very heart of the Charity Commission matter though? Brethren, Brethren, Brethren........where's the public benefit?

      I just wish they'd decide once and for all, private member's club or mainstream religion?

      Thank goodness someone is speaking up about them in Westminster.......Paul Flynn MP 'This is not about the Plymouth Brethren, but about a tiny sect of the Plymouth Brethren known as the Hales Exclusive Brethren. It is practising cruelty, I believe, in many ways against its own people. This is a dangerous sect. Rightly, the Charity Commission withdrew its status. The sect then had a campaign, which spent £2 million, to convince the Charity Commission that it had changed, and it changed its deeds. It is quite clear that this is what it calls “spoiling the Egyptians”, a process to deceive the Charity Commission. It is not abiding by its new status.


      That was just a few days ago.

  7. Wonder if the radios in those cars have been disabled. The cutting off of the car is clearly staged. Those poor people's houses must be crammed to the hilt with stuff they would never normally have bought. Peeb cookbooks next ? " Cooking the books 101 "
    " Tax evasion made easy " " Idiots guide to Commercialism "
    Racketeering by Dennis Court
    More for your Money by Max

    What a mess.....

  8. Us exclusive brethren not being racialist still all understand how Russians are a bunch of bike thieves. And those Japs ,well never try to tell me anything about any of them, utterly wicked bunch of people, the whole lot of them

    What happens yesterday is just likely to be forgotten tomorrow , hic.What with all the copious amount of scotch whiskey that we drink these days

  9. If this publishing project were merely a way of making money, I would have expected the books to be marketed to a wider readership. The books look expensive to produce, and they don’t have the economies of scale, so there must be easier ways of making money. There must be more to it than fleecing the flock. But what?

    I would like to think the Brethren leadership were taking a genuine interest in education, and there is no doubt that the people who took part in this project must have learned a lot of facts and a lot of skills in the process. That is a good thing. I am glad to see it. I can’t comment on the educational value of these books for Brethren children until I see the books, but so far I see no reason to doubt their value.

    But I am still uneasy. We have already seen two books from Brethren sources intended to be educational. One was about Paul’s missionary journeys. It was honest, impressive and had no significant sectarian distortions of the facts. My hopes for the Brethren rose as I read it. The other was about the history of the Jews, but it fell far short of the standards of objectivity that are essential for a history book to be used in school, or used anywhere. If you go a bit further back, the only other history book that I can think of from Brethren sources was “The Recovery and Maintenance of the Truth” which is hopelessly sectarian and more about indoctrination than education. It is utterly unfit for use in schools.

    Why am I uneasy? If the Brethren’s interest in education arises from a genuine thirst for knowledge and a pursuit of truth, then hallelujah! That is a really good sign. But if it arises from a wish to exercise total control over what their children learn, then it is an unhealthy interest. The Brethren as a whole are poorly qualified to decide what is best for their children to learn. Many of those that we hear from, including a good proportion of their leaders and “great men” show a staggering, astonishing degree of ignorance about some of the most important subjects of scholarly study. And it is dangerous for children or anyone to draw their learning from a narrow, inbred range of sources, even if the sources were pretty well informed. That is a recipe for bias, blinkered vision, and sectarianism.

    I hope the UBT books are not used as a substitute for books written by professional historians or professional educators in school libraries or homes. Free access to a wide variety of sources is an essential safeguard against bias and mind control. As Article 17 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child says, every child has the right to reliable information from a variety of sources, and as Article 13 says, every child must be free . . . to access all kinds of information, as long as it is within the law. Those who drafted the Convention were apparently well aware of the grave dangers of allowing some people to control other people’s access to information.

    That may all sound a bit distrustful. That is because I AM distrustful, and with good reason. But when I actually see the books, I hope I may have something more positive to say.

    1. Ian,

      Top brass reports and the Bull has taken another leak. Or should we say a direct hit broadside which caused the leak and the Bull is running low on grass.
      The Cash is in but the Cow is out of the pen. Profit is not the concern. Education is on the rise and proving a useful ruse. The sisters at home are not all alone as Googles hell box they look in.
      IP Addresses are monitored and tracked for purposes of discovering traitors. The witch hunt is on for miscreant blog posters.
      Beautiful Book Orderers Beware-- of who uses & how, the household Wordex Machine.

      1 2 Mini

      Oh, I meant the Papal Bull of course. Particularly the unprincipled one.

  10. This suggests that UBT and the PBCC are one and the same. No surprises there!

  11. Well - it would have been nicer if Mrs Cox had put her teeth in for the interview. It's another 'milk em for every cent' exercise by Bruce and a lovely opportunity no doubt to talk about his father's war service. (JSH) Sadly one of his ex-soldier mates didn't die in the war fighting the Japanese- but was kicked out by Hales years later - along with his family - because someone thought they saw them walking on a beach. It wasn't them - but that won't stop a Hales in rendering the final chop. Something maybe he learned in the war? Either way - the Hales are more dangerous than any war.

  12. If these books are properly referenced with a good bibliography it will help Brethren people who are keen to learn outside the PBCC tent. Peter Trevvett sent me a copy of his book on the journeys of the apostle Paul and although it wasn't referenced it had an extensive bibliography - I was delighted to see in his list a number of books I've read and have on my own shelves.

    Now that the PBCC considers itself a mainstream church Bruce D Hales will surely have appointed an archivist. Record-keeping, in one form or another, has always been an important part of the Judaeo-Christian tradition. In all parts of the United Kingdom, from the end of the Roman Empire onwards, 'mainstream' Christian monks, nuns, clergy and lay people have written and kept records, and historians, sociologists and ordinary citizens rely on these documents for their research work. Manuscripts and printed documents are held, of course, in university and public libraries as well as parish registers. These days a great number of these are also available on the web.

    J N Darby and William Kelly, with other early Brethren, were keen antiquarians and book collectors - and we know a lot about them as people from their own writings and the publications of others about them.

    Who is the PBCC archivist, I wonder?

    1. Joan,

      William Kelly is virtually unknown amongst us.--never read his books. I don't know that part of the history, but have heard of the "Kelly Party" and think it is in reference to him.
      I have heard that Mr Darby considered getting rid of his books, but the scripture about Pauls books and parchments caused him to keep his collection.

      1 2 Mini

    2. 1 2 Mini

      William Kelly will of course be a ‘virtual unknown amongst us’ because he separated from Darby.

      William Kelly along with other Brethren writers and leading men such as FF Bruce, G Mueller, Hudson Taylor, Watchman Nee, and many many others, would all be an ‘unknown amongst us’ because they were never part of the Raven-Taylor Snr-Taylor Junior-Symington-Hales Exclusive Brethren now PBCC.

      There are vast numbers of Brethren writers mainly from the Open Brethren that the Raven-Taylor Snr-Taylor Junior-Symington-Hales Exclusive Brethren have either never heard of, or are not supposed to read. It was the former leader of the Exclusive Brethren James Taylor, that described the Open Brethren as the ‘dirtiest ditch in Christendom’. What a disgusting way to talk about Christians !

      There are vast numbers of non Brethren writers that Raven-Taylor Snr-Taylor Junior-Symington-Hales Exclusive Brethren have either never heard of, or are not supposed to read, such as JC Ryle, Robert Murray M'Cheyne, Martyn Lloyd Jones, R. C. Sproul, John Stott, Sinclair Ferguson, and many many more

      These and other Christian writers are described as ‘wordly’ by Exclusive Brethren PBCC who would refuse to acknowledge them as Christians.

      Yet, outside the thick walls of sectarian separation constructed by Raven-Taylor Snr-Taylor Junior-Symington-Hales Exclusive Brethren there is a huge Christian resource. Those thick sectarian walls of separation keep PBCC EB apart from the rest of the Body of Christ, an action which is opposed and contrary to the teachings in the Christian Holy Bible

      From a Christian person opposed to PBCC EB

  13. Ian,
    Coild you at least be taking a look at your own short comings? Your own history is definitely nothing to be puffed-up about. May I suggest it would be something to come to an end of your self and submit to God's claims. The PBCC are doing great things and have found favour before God and Men. Yes it grates against the pride of life and self will, but there it is. Respect the brethren for their conviction even if you don't like it ok.
    The evidence of this favour is seen in the respect they command from all walks of life.
    Sure you will agree.

    One then of course finds it exceedingly difficult to find a grain of truth in any of the comments here.
    Like a mob of people who can only muster a -
    I will scratch your back if you scratch mine.

    May l add ..There is no "Freedom" in speaking evil or to make accusations against the people of God. Rather it is the spirit of someone being consumed by restlessness, vindictiveness and pride. The world entertains a lawless spirit and calls it Freedom.
    ln fact, freedom is found only in Christ as we submit to his claims.We are not our own, but have been bought with a price. The cost was the death of a sinless and perfect man for our sins.

    Such who sow deceit and speak evil of the brethren will never be prospered, but rather remain enslaved by their self deceit. Think before you open your mouth. God will judge us by what is uttered against his people.

    A former member saved by grace..

    1. Reply to “A former member saved by grace”.

      You are right, of course, about the value of examining our own shortcomings. I know, because I have plenty of shortcomings. But most of your post consists of implausible assertions about the virtues of the PBCC, and the respect in which they are held, none of which is remotely compatible with the evidence I have seen.

      There is one thing I must ask. Who do you refer to by the phrase “the people of God”? Is that your description of the PBCC? It sounds as if you are implying that non-members of the PBCC are not God’s people. I know that this implication is found in many printed pages of Brethren ministry, but I hope you do not think in that extremely sectarian way.

    2. Dear "A former member saved by grace..",

      I have a suggestion. Why don't you just f*ck off? You are making such an ars*hole of yourself. Bruce Hales is a fraud, making millions out of you. The PBCC is a sad, pathetic group of damaged individuals, worshipping said Bruce Hales. It's so sad. Such a waste of your lives. I suppose it's never too late - even if you have worshipped false gods all your life, you could have a few years left, worshipping God. But I know how hard it is, accepting that most of your life you have been led astray. So wish I could help you. Let me know if you'd like my phone no, for a chat.

      A former member saved by grace ... real grace, not the Bruce Hales full of grace nonsense.

    3. former member saved by grace 19th Feb 21:57

      I see NO grace in your writings, but I do see someone who is bitter, vindictive, sectarian, extremist & full of anger & deceit towards all other Christians in the rest of the Body of Christ outside your closed group

      1st Para
      You say ‘PBCC doing great things’ & found favour before God and Men’

      Don’t you know the Bible teaches Christians NOT to seek ‘favour of men’ & where is the evidence that PBCC ‘found favour before God’ ? That assumption is highly arrogant & deluded as it has NO connection to reality of PBCC EB practices or beliefs. You disobey, ignore & contradict Gods Biblical commands, ie you “separate from evil” from all other Christians, an action offensive to God !

      What you say shows the very thing you criticise others for ‘puffed-up, pride, self will’

      1st Para
      You say ‘Respect brethren for their conviction even if you don't like it ok’

      Just because I may respect brethren for conviction does NOT mean I agree with that conviction. The Bible does not justify their convictions & I don’t respect or agree with harm & detriment created by your extremist sectarian unbiblical false teaching.

      1st Para
      You say ‘evidence of this favour is seen in the respect they command from all walks of life’

      A figment of your deluded imagination. Where is your evidence ?.

      2nd Para
      You say ‘exceedingly difficult to find a grain of truth in any of the comments here’

      So you don’t accept the truth of the Bible when quoted on these blogs in proper context, application and meaning ?

      So when EB ‘ministry’ is quoted from your leaders Bruce Hales or James Taylor, etc, you don’t accept those quoted extracts as true ?

      So when evidence is quoted from Parliament, Court records, Charity Commission, etc, you don’t accept those quoted extracts as truth ?

      So you don’t accept as truth the post above by Anon 17th Feb 21:58 who quotes Paul Flynn MP from UK Parliament records ?

      3rd Para
      You say – “no Freedom in speaking evil or to make accusations against the people of God. Rather it is…..”

      The double mindedness & deceit of your comments couldn’t have been written by a genuine Christian as its PBCC EB who ‘speak evil of & make accusations against the people of God’ !

      You teach that all Christians in the rest of the Body of Christ outside PBCC EB are unfit to eat or drink with, or to have fellowship, worship, or have communion with, you call this “separation from evil”.

      That is speaking evil of & making false accusations against the people of God !

      You teach that to leave PBCC EB for a Christian Church is to turn away from Christ, Christianity, Salvation, The Truth, Paul, Inheritance, The Assembly, The Lords Table, The Only Place That’s Right, etc

      That is speaking evil of & making false accusations against the people of God !

      On these blogs you & your like minded tried to claim others have 'not much salt' 'suffering' 'conviction' & are making ‘a mockery of the sufferings of Christ’ !. Your former leader James Taylor Junior said Open Brethren were the ‘dirtiest ditch in Christendom’ & James Taylor Senior said ‘the Spirit of God was not in other Churches’. All of which is completely against factual reality.

      That is speaking evil of & making false accusations against the people of God !

      To quote your own words !

      For you & PBCC EB to speak evil of & make false accusations against the people of God (ALL Christians) is the spirit of persons consumed by restlessness, vindictiveness & pride. For you & PBCC who sow deceit & speak evil of ALL Christians outside of your closed group, you will not prosper, but rather remain enslaved by your own self deceit. Please think before you open your mouth. God will judge PBCC EB by your false accusations against His people who consist of ALL Christians in the Body of Christ whom you separate from.

      From a Christian person opposed to PBCC EB

  14. Might Anon at 19 Feb 21.57 tell us in what ways the PBCC has found favour with Gid and Man?

  15. A reply to 1 2 Mini 20 February 2015 at 06:46.

    The Brethren might like to read "The Irish Saint and Scholar: A Biography of William Kelly 1821-1906" by Edwin Cross 2004.

    1. The Hales Exclusive Brethren do not read William Kelly. He is "outside". He was a close friend of J.N.D. for most of his life, and edited many of Darbys books and collected his letters into 3 volumes. But after Darby died William Kelly had a major difference with the new leader F.E. Raven who had some strange thoughts considered blasphemous on the person of Christ's Sonship. Kelly left the Darby group with many others. WK was an outstanding biblical scholar. The Hales EB are so much poorer for banning his writings - also those of another old Darby friend, C.H. Mackintosh.

    2. Many PBCC members dumped all CAC's ministry too. My father-in-law Caleb Furse dumped his in the English Channel. Just a shame he didn't go over the side with it.

    3. Joan,

      I haven't made time to find that book, but had a few minutes to read a little about Kelly online here and there. It seems he was a close friend and ally of JND right to the end of Darby's life. One article I saw indicates that Darby told the brethren to back off or to leave Kelly alone, but the brethren put Kelly out anyway against Darby's wishes.

      Some seem to have referred to Kelly as "Darby Interpreted" and he seems to have been happy to work in the shadows somewhat from what I gather. I am intrigued to learn more about him and read some of his works.
      For the most part, I fear my brethren have psychologically tarred all books not coming from their accepted sources as untouchable. Even a religious book with a colored cover or a picture on the cover is usually enough to trigger a seemingly inborn reaction to simply not pick up or open such a book.

      The brethren are changing though, and little shards of light from the outer darkness are seeping in through cracks in the armor plated cranial cavities of many mesmerized minds.


      Keep up the bad work.

      1 2 Mini

    4. 1 2 Mini.

      When is enrollment for the next campus class, on Maxwells hammer? Looked over the edge of the flat earth but it had dropped down too far to see.

    5. Bro,

      King Saul was getting on to us so we had to switch it up a bit. We had to dig in at the cave of Addulam and take a detour-- we have been studying another chapter in Paul's ministry called "Band on the Run". With a pint a day, and with thoughts of giving it all away to registered charity, Pigster and the Hamstrings are perfecting the harmonies of our version of Maxwell. It is called Occultation Inoculation-a Moving fantasy.

      Were you commenting that David and Goliath can be confused, or have I misquoted you? Anyway those two certainly were both confused, at least some of the time. David never more so than when he borrowed another brothers wife.

      1 2 Mini

      Oh, enrollment is closed temporarily while we ascertain the security of our sound proof man cave. Thief Just Us at Gads Den has the waiting lust and is taking names for the next unrollment.

  16. To the "Former" Member.

    If you are suggesting that any critical comments regarding the PBCC is an attack on God's people, does this imply, since you are no longer a member, that you are not one of God's people? Isn't that rather an uncomfortable position?

    If, however, you imply that attacks against Christians will be judged by God, do you think PBCC and "former" members who have made derogatory remarks about Christians, churches and the clergy, will be so weighed in the balance? Was former PBCC leader Taylor Jnr., who referred to the Open Brethren as "bums" or as the dirtiest ditch in Christendom, so judged ?

    God's "chosen" people are legion; some run around in woods with arms and ammunition, some live in trailer parks with multiple wives and countless children, some self destruct taking children and the innocent with them. Some call for the death penalty and extreme measures against any they perceive as "abnormal"
    Such organisations are not fit to be aided by the state, or be in charge of the education of the young.

    Take care in your comments, you may not be pleasing to anyone, not even the PBCC !

  17. Phil T,

    What are the strange or blasphemous thoughts that Mr. Raven had?

    1 2 Mini

    1. 1 2 Mini

      You might refer to the following articles by William Kelly:



      While he is too polite to mention names; it is clear he is referring to FER because in similar articles (I cannot trace right now) he mentions ministry from Greenwich. Greenwich was the home assembly of FER.

      That web sight has a huge list of the writings of Wm Kelly - worth reading; quite out of the league of BDH et al.

  18. 1 2 Mini

    Does it really matter? Not directing this comment at you specifically, but we are so "programmed" to worship an earthly leader that we hardly know how to think about worshipping the living and true God.
    To get the slightest inkling of what it means to come under the leadership and teaching and guidance of the Holy Spirit and not have to worry about getting tied up in knots over what leader said this, thought that , who was right and wrong is a very liberating experience.

    Think of the possibilities when many hearts and eyes start to become opened to this, when God enlightens them.!!


  19. Bro,

    It does matter to me because my entire belief system and world view is probably derived from the teaching of the leaders of the recovery. I wish to separate the precious from the vile and become aware of which portions of my belief are man made, and which portions are from God. I very much doubt that everything I have been taught is pure human invention, and it is becoming clear to me that much of what I have been taught IS man made. I do believe in right and wrong, and if my sources are blasphemous I wish to know how and in what way in order that I may "prove all things, hold fast the right". It would be really too bad to call good evil and evil good and not even know I am doing so.

    Like most folks around here, you almost seem to be suffering from some sort of mistaken identity. (as in use a consistent misnomer please--are you one moment Phil T, and Bro the next?) Bruce thinks he is Paul, or at least he plays on that nonsense in the brethrens minds. Someone asked me in another thread a while back why we cannot carry on simple logical discussion and I wonder if this has something to do with it.

    I am glad you are among the ranks of those who are being filed and chipped away by revolution. Are you one of the living stones upon the Rock or are you one of the dead fish among us who rolls with expedient currency?

    Your comments remind me of our beloved's reading entitled "inward leadership" . Have you read that lately? It is most helpful, especially the full re-print. It appears the original publishing was tampered with, and it was subsequently printed in full if I am not mistaken.

    1 2 Mini

    PS The band had to switch to a him because the lookouts alerted us that the brew master is a listening inn. He can't hear the words, but the tune is well known so we are trying to distract him with the tune. I shall endeavor to post the entire dirge hereafter. I hope you can get a band together in your locality and rehearse it. Especially the words.

    1. 1 2 Mini

      Seeking Christ is a noble goal. Dispensing with dross on the way can be very challenging, especially if you have been brought up in an environment where the teachings of ‘these great men’ have taken precedence over the word of God. The word of God as revealed in the Bible remains faithful and true and a strong anchor through the vagaries of life.

      If you can sneak some genuine Christian materials into your life for viewing and study, may I suggest some from an organisation called ‘Freedom in Christ’.


      This is a course for all Christians from all flavours to re-examine and establish who the Bible says they really are and to enable us to walk in confidence with Christ in freedom. I’m sure there are other courses/books/materials, but we as a church use this one and I personally found it helpful.

    2. Theophilus,

      Thank you for the resource link. For various reasons, limited time being one, I don't know that I will pursue the materials there. A brief look at the first page and the statement of faith indicates to me that the beliefs of the folks behind the site probably mirror my own in most regards. I didn't find any jarring notes there except for maybe one.
      You have said that you are not from the brethren--pardon my continual reference to hymns or sayings that are permanently stuck in my head. What with a meeting every day both beginning and ending with hymns, Sunday with perhaps 30 hymns of 4 verses each, I calculate that we sing around 160 verses a week as an average. Since we have maybe only 1200 verses (about 3 or 400 hymns) available, these tunes and words become a permanent part of our psyche. They quite likely contain both the eternal and Godly blessing of narrow minded soul saving truth while simultaneously promoting minds blinded by thoughtless rote.
      --The hymn I have just referred to is here--http://www.hymntime.com/tch/htm/i/n/h/inhopewl.htm

      Agreed that seeking Chirst is noble. He is the Way, The Truth, and the Life. Also the resurrection and the life. My brethren with "nowhere else to go" have almost replaced Him with the Assembly in yet another twist of mistaken identity. For this reason, all manner of ungodly idiocy emanating (even riddled ribaldry) from our great men is swallowed as some sort of spiritual device whereby the enemy is justly daggered and unceremoniously pronounced dead without thought, trial, doctrine or principle.
      Everything is viewed through the blinding light of powerful scriptures misused to bind christian conscience to falsehoods. "let him that has an ear hear what the Spirit says to the assembly" from Revelation for instance, is taken to be proof that the current leader is providing relevant, direct, and real time communication from God. Never mind the obvious intent of the scripture. Only the 4 or 5 words needed to support the fiction are ever quoted, the context is not read or taken into account. Any attempt to do so is internally identified as the "mind of the flesh", and in cases where one overcomes the inward leadership and expresses concern, he is "helped" to identify his fleshly tendencies, or summarily dealt with.
      The blessing of wicked sites like this one is that they provide thinking folks among us space to vent frustrations and spinnership without risking grave familial loss. Those In and Sane in other words, are herein allowed to get out of their minds for short snatches now and again. Hopefully in doing so, we will get under the skin of other belly gazing geezers with a view to razing their sites to the ground. If this boggles your mind, ask Fred Mouse next time he is in the house. He started the club based on the Danged Digs theory.

      1 2 Mini

      PS. Mr. Darby felt that Satan's great aim is to get up a system that mimics Gods Spirit leading, and I would argue that such a system is not more closely achieved than among us. Ahh, the wonders of whisky filled erroneously indoctrinated this ones and that ones born in her. (a psalm also used out of context) Never fear though, Gad is on a high course to the rescue.

  20. Bro,

    Here is the dirge. You should be able to find a fitting tune, it is a 6565 double. I hope the county judge is over his grudge.

    Crumbs to Brew Sales

    Oh thumb nose at Brew Sales
    His language is go
    a spoiling Egyptians
    Is all that he knows
    One fallen from Heaven
    Is running his show
    His life is devoted
    To theft of your soul

    Brew Sales is for damming
    Those who wish to leave
    With mind bending madness
    He's feeding their greed
    He wants you not gleaning
    this Whirlds bloggin mess
    In meeting rooms saintly
    You are to invest

    Then Those of Berea
    Compared what Paul said
    With Biblical Scripture
    That ever they'd read
    If aught was not equal
    With what God's Word said
    They justly declared it
    tripe nonsense and dead

    Why Crumbs how amazing
    Is Lyle's grand son
    Whose ring finger's larger
    Thanks his daddy's thumb
    From henceforth for ever
    His new name shall be
    That 5 timing cowboy
    Piglet with a she

    His friend Brew Name Changer
    With language that drops
    Nonsensical cow pies
    From over used chops
    The malady brethren
    It starts with a D
    It's oral and scentsless
    Oh deary oh me.

    1 Kings 12v10 (Darby)
    Dehild Dehild DeHild!!
    Pigster and the Hamstrings

    Courtesty of 1 2 Mini

  21. 1 2 Mini

    No I'm not Phil T, just one of the living stones upon the Rock, not a dead fish either, there's plenty of them around.lol


    1. Bro,

      Ok, what a relief. Hopefully Mr. T can fill me in on Mr. Ravens errant thoughts. Discussion is so much faster than tedious research which is a weariness of the flesh.

      Glad we are both on the Rock, and let's Roll.

      1 2 Mini

  22. 1 2 Mini
    If your entire belief system and world view is built upon the teaching of the leaders of the recovery then you do have a problem.
    I would suggest it is much safer to stick to God's Word the Bible.
    It took me perhaps a decade or more to realise that there is much more bible based Christian teaching outside the Exclusives than inside. Be a Berean.

    1. 10.36,

      Well maybe so, but I doubt my problem is worse than that of every reader and poster on this site. One gets a world view from peer reviews in science journals, another from Anglican teaching, yet another from the amillennialism camp, another from here, another from there etc, etc. Then we all proclaim we only go by the Bible.
      Sticking to it is surely the safest route, and of the making of books there is no end.
      Yes those Berean gals were wise.

      1 2 Mini

  23. 1 2 Mini: Re; FER doctrine.

    Here is the ref to the article by Wm Kelly of the false doctrine of FER. It was taught that Christ as a man (and babe) could not also be the Eternal Life. It is quite a long article but WK demolishes the doctrine and other similar associated teachings.

    It is similar to the false doctrine taught by JT Snr in 1929 denying the eternal Sonship of Christ which is still believed today by the EB and breakaway groups. This in spite of clear contextual reading of John 1; Colossians 1; and Heb 1 and John 17:5.

    I suggest you read the WK article carefully - written in 1890.


    1. Thank you Phil,

      I have vaguely heard of some argument in FER's time surrounding eternal life. I have read the article above once through, but will have to try again in order to grasp what was going on. All I know about eternal life is that we enjoy it now among the brethren. Beyond that, none of the comments in the WK article seem familiar. I must say though, that some of his comments as to the seriousness of the error, concern me a fair bit. --I mean I hope I am not imbibing some sort of deep error regarding my Lord.
      I can't say I had ever heard the idea that our Lord was not the eternal life from the manger to the cross, and in my unthought way I would have assumed that He was always so.--no one has ever suggested otherwise to me, and if such a thing is contained in Mr. Raven's ministry, I either missed it or never read it.
      I don't know what was ministered in 1929 either.
      I think that is the first time I have read something of WK, and I can't say I followed it easily. Possibly this is because I don't have the other half of the argument to reference it to, or possibly it is simply out of my league. I will have to look for something of WK that is not a rebuttal to see if I can understand his manner of writing.

      1 2 Mini

  24. 1 2 Mini

    Yes, the hymns are very often the only bright spot with pure reference to Christ in countless dreary mtgs which mostly consist of grate, er great men stuff and grate men quotes.where God hardly gets a passing mention.