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Thursday, 5 February 2015

Do You......


33 comments:

  1. Like it Laurie! There's plenty talking just now. Do I sense the beginning of the end (well, the second end actually) of the Hales's Plymouth Brethren Commercial Church? A cool half a century after the last one! Thank goodness I won't be here in 2065.

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  2. As soon as Bruce Hales (The current Plymouth Brethren Christian Church Exclusive Brethren universal leader) allowed the restricted use of –

    Internet
    Mobile phones
    Computers
    Fax machines
    Wi Fi

    It was always going to be very difficult to stop information being leaked to outsiders. The internet age which allows the free flow of information and knowledge at our fingertips will eventually expose such secretive sectarian totalitarian cultish groups as the PBCC EB to the wider public, which is why Bruce Hales and his cronies hate those who leak

    Even though Bruce Hales has tried to restrict the use of “technology” ie restricted internet use through their own providers and partially disabled computers, he can not stop it all.

    The leaking of information to the outside just shows the concern, unease and deep dissatisfaction of some of the members with Bruce Hales and the UBT, PBCC set up.

    It is also a concern of Bruce Hales and his cronies, here are some extracts from so called ‘Christian Ministry’. Although to put the word ‘Christian’ to any of these quotes is heresy and blasphemy !


    Ministry of B. D. Hales Vol. 125 page 300 (27 July 2012).

    BDH. Well, if its current, those persons don’t belong to us. The best thing is if there is anyone here in this room that’s betraying the position, and communicating to persons that are no longer with us, what’s on the inside position, they should declare themselves, get free by confession, and we’ll forgive you, we’ll forgive you. If you go on with it, we’ll withdraw from you. So take your pick. Only two choices for traitors, confess, declare, get forgiven, or go, go. We don’t need traitors, that’s one thing we don’t need, is traitors……….Why be in a camp, one camp allegedly supporting the position, and betraying it to another camp ?. What future is in that ? Get shot in the army wouldn’t you ? Shot, just shot. Or shoot yourself, is the best thing……..You’d be be really putting your head in the noose, wouldn’t you ?. I don’t mind if you do, we don’t have to hang the noose up, we’ll just let you……..


    John Gadsden White Book 483 pages 23-24 (5 December 2012)

    “Our brother spoke of this matter of what's traitorous, persons still passing information, passing out what's precious, and what belongs in the inner circle. It's passed out to persons who are opposed, who really have the character of Judas. We know there's only one Judas, we understand that. But there's the character of betrayal, and it's a very serious matter, you see, very serious matter. So if we know that there are persons going on and compromising with those out of fellowship, it's a question on what basis we have to continue, you see. But I just say that because it comes into this chapter, and our brother's referred to it and said it needs to be brought into the fellowship meeting, so we'll get it in early, and challenge anyone that would pass information out.”

    End Quotes

    There is nothing ‘Christian’ in any of that and no normal genuine Christian church speaks like that, that is the language of warmongering fear mongering cult leaders.

    R

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  3. Regarding the "ministry" on the subject of hanging, Messers Hales & Gadsden (the old firm) have been hoisted aloft by their own petards.

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  4. Here's me thinking that their meetings were for public benefit!

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  5. Does anyone know of any members of the great unwashed now regularly attending PBCC meetings? Also, isn't it a wasted opportunity that the "public benefit"of the street exhortations is not followed through with an invitation? The problem being that if the seeker ends up in a mainstream church they will still be in the darkness, according to our regular PBCC commentators. On the other hand, the CC were told that it might be the case that some other churches might have grudging approval, although this was a confession made whilst on the rack of losing public funding.

    Perhaps one of our regular "former members" could clear up this confusion.


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  6. Why the obsession with leaking?

    I remember the good old days when leaking was encouraged. The more widely the ministry could be spread, the better. We had nothing to hide and everything to communicate. Mainstream churches are still like that. They are only too pleased if the proceedings in church are reported to others.

    The culture of extreme secrecy only began around 1960. Since then the Taylor/Symington/Hales fellowship has had a lot to hide, and a lot to be ashamed of. Some of their ministry is just not fit for human consumption.

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  7. I thought they said that they welcomed scrutiny though Ian?

    Risible

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    1. Yes, GC did say they welcomed scrutiny. But then he also said at the same meeting of the House of Commons Public Administration Committee, “We regularly have visitors attending our services and they are very very welcome.” When a Jewish MP asked if he could attend the Sunday morning meeting he was told yes, you are all welcome to attend our services. Am I right in thinking this was a knowingly misleading reply?

      As far as I know the Sunday morning meeting is still strictly reserved exclusively for Exclusives. Has anyone else ever attended one since they became strictly private in the 1960s?

      In UK government circles it is regarded as very seriously wrong to give misleading evidence to the House of Commons Public Administration Committee.

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    2. Garth Christie said the following to the Parliamentary Committee to which he and Bruce Hazell gave evidence:

      ""We do not mind any of the questions. We welcome scrutiny, that is not a problem to us. If any of the members have further questions they would like to send in or approach us about, we welcome it. We have nothing to hide."

      I've often thought about the verb Garth Christie used on that occasion - "welcome". There's a warmth and cordiality about that word. He didn't say, "We accept that we'll be subject to scrutiny and we're prepared for that". He chose to speak of welcoming questions, comments etc.

      A lot of PBCC people don't welcome feedback or scrutiny of any kind and many seem to find open discussion a problem. It's a loss both to them and to the people they've rejected, and in some matters it means that the PBCC continues to operate in woeful ignorance - we've all read about Bruce D Hales's lack of awareness of how private schools are funded in the UK, for example.

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  8. Maybe Garth Christie and Bruce Hazell were carried away with exuberance in the service of their master, Bruce Hales, and really believed their own hype. Never mind the early morning meeting, I am still interested to know how many outsiders are regularly attending any meeting. Or has the "open door" been quietly closed so that the PBCC can maintain their integrity as a state supported private members' social club?

    I am sure one of the regular "former members" might be able to inform us, since they are always up to speed on all matters appertaining to the "church".

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  9. I really like the PBCC
    Such bad press and so far from true.

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    1. There's no smoke, without fire....

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    2. Anon 9 Feb 21:30

      Is the reason you like them because you are in fact a member ?

      When you say ‘such bad press and so far from true’ does that mean you deny the existence of, or the content, or the meaning of your ‘Own’ PBCC Exclusive Brethren ministry from Bruce Hales & John Gadsden, as quoted above in post 5 Feb 18:54 ?

      K

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    3. "Bad press", Anon 8Feb:2130 ? You mean the stuff CURRENT MEMBERS are saying about the EB/PBCC which is then reported on here?! (this thread is about leakage from inside the sieve, remember).

      I agree, it's certainly a worry when an organisation's own members are giving out information which when received by the normal outside world makes the EB 'church' smell bad. You'd think if it was a Christian church following Jesus' commandments the information would at least contain some remnants of stuff about non-judgmental love and being neighbourly to harlots and the wounded man in the ditch, etc...

      The fact that the information is about tax-dodging, and CC wool-pulling, and ongoing treatment of nonEB people as evil and iniquitous, and EB being sanctioned by their leadership for forgetting they weren't to mention "our brother" (Beedie) at preachings when outsiders are present, and attempted suicides being hushed up, and horrendous DUI practices by brethren for decades, and a callous disregard of the sensibilities of nonEB...... kind of makes one wonder why a raft of current 'leakers' would say all this "untrue" bad press (including current ministry quotes). It seems all very unbalanced to me.

      Next time I meet my EB friend I shall insist she tells me something nice about her life, first, before she unburdens herself about the less savoury goings-on in her local EB/PBCC. Perhaps she might have scored a good deal on the latest fascinator, or BDH may have 'allowed' her to marry the EB man of her dreams. Ahh, bliss.

      Sorry to be negative, but after many years living on the inside of the EB/PBCC (now free, thank the Lord), the most apt scripture I find for them is the one about cleaning the outside of the cup but the inside being full of dead men's bones. It is NOT a pretty picture when you peer over the lip into the real interior. It takes a lot of courage for current members to speak out, and I for one applaud them. All it takes for evil to continue - even nice-looking evil, if that's how you want to play it, Anon - is for good men to say nowt.

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    4. Trevor, I would like to discuss the current problems of the Hales sect with you more directly, face to face or by email. If you are willing, you could find me on Facebook or phone me at 07984 965188.

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    5. Sorry, Trevor, that was a typing error. My mobile phone number is 07984 865188.

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    6. Ian - Have you ever watched Fools and Horses. Problems indeed come to those who make them their life's ambition.

      Being a Plonker here or on Face book is not going to win you a medal or any Brownie points with BDH or Mr Muppitt.
      Do you think therefore, it may be better to recognise the error of your ways than worry too much about a typo?

      The moral of the story is - Jesus came to solve Man's problems
      and not spend time looking for and causing them.

      Dot






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    7. Dot:

      Colossians 4 applies here. Think on it.

      4 to the end that I may make it manifest as I ought to speak.

      5 Walk in wisdom towards those without, redeeming opportunities.

      6 [Let] your word [be] always with grace, seasoned with salt, [so as] to know how ye ought to answer each one.

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    8. Dot, I don’t know what Fools and Horses is, but I agree with nearly everything you have just said. Solving problems is a noble ambition and a satisfying activity. Those who see Jesus as a role model spend a lot of time doing it. For example, there are a lot of problems associated with aberrant forms of religion, but the first step in solving them is usually identifying them and understanding them. Some of those who post here are trying hard to do just that.

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    9. Here's me thinking BDH was Mr Muppitt.

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    10. Dot.

      What is done in secret will be revealed. I think this website is part of that process, don't you?

      Luke 12: 1 -3 Darby

      1In those [times], the myriads of the crowd being gathered together, so that they trod one on another, he began to say to his disciples first, Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy; 2but there is nothing covered up which shall not be revealed, nor secret that shall not be known; 3therefore whatever ye have said in the darkness shall be heard in the light, and what ye have spoken in the ear in chambers shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

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    11. Hello Dotty

      I think Ian long ago gave up receiving brownie points from BDH. There are those who are still trying, though, in the time honoured fashion.

      I am surprised to hear that you have been watching "Fools and Horses" as those you purport to support apparently regard TV as a river of filth or hell's goggle box etc etc (make up your own colourful images, to suit). The fact that many are accessing programmes, and all the media, on other devices is neither here or there. Lack of a TV on display is a last remaining symbol of PBCC "unworldliness"; although, I regret to say, that there are likely to be a few sets hidden away in attic rooms and other nooks. The rivers of filth brigade might be disappointed to know that a lot of "worldly" folk do not have these appendages of evil because they have other interests in their life. However, such an image would not suit the all black, or all white world view of the bigot.

      Excuse me, must creep under the duvet now to listen to Gardeners' Question Time.

      Media Mouse



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    12. Ian and I were already in contact, he just didn't realise! However I don't think that makes him a plonker Dot... it is more likely an indicator of how my upbringing as an EB taught me to be so inherently practised at deception that even my friends don't recognise me. Another thing it shows is that I am aware of the lengths to which I must constantly try to go to protect the identity of my HEB sources; the cost to them is enormous if 'found out'.

      How bizarre that a church which "welcomes scrutiny" in the words of one of its national leaders, describes members who speak with outsiders as "traitors", and punishes such with the loss of their families (and their income, in many cases). Why the PBCC think this sort of ghastly activity might make them more like a mainstream church than a personality cult, is just a pointer to how deluded and insular and arrogant they have become as a group. I make no apology for joining with others in being a conduit for leaks from their sieve.

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  10. ""We do not mind any of the questions. We welcome scrutiny, that is not a problem to us. If any of the members have further questions they would like to send in or approach us about, we welcome it. We have nothing to hide."

    The only proviso with that quote is that if you do this INSIDE the sect - you are thrown out, your family is taken from you and everything else in your world is turned upside down. Welcome scrutiny .....Pfffft! They hate scrutiny. I wouldn't mind so much - but they are such consummate liars today. They don't even flinch when they do it now.

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    1. I agree. It kind of scares me that EB/PBCC members don't even seem to be able to recognise the difference between truth and fairytale any more. Their leaders can feed them any old superstitious nonsense and the flock will suck it up like gold-dust. Many EB members' eyes seem dead these days, and I honestly think this is because there have now been so many generations of in-bred cultism; they are no longer able to think properly. I fear for them the longer this enforced insularity goes on. When that closedness is infused with arrogance (as has been witnessed on occasions particularly in recent years, thanks to BDH's leadership I suspect), one gets what one can only describe as a feeling of evil. They are so fixedly righteous in their own minds, even while peddling the worst hypocrisy and falsity, there's just nowhere to go with them. It scares me when I think of the hundreds of friends and relatives I used to have in the EB/PBCC. I don't know how to get through to them.

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  11. Hey Bruce, just come across this site. Remember me? You always told me to keep it to myself. Looks like you have been doing well since out last liaison. How's Jen? I don't think she's too fond of me, hope you are getting it together now.

    It was fun. Hope everything still is fun. Thinking of you fondly, Fifi

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    1. Oh stop it Fifi, you know it was only an ambush and anyone who says otherwise is gay.........sorry Gareth!

      Brucie Woosie and the Detwoit Spinners

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    2. “ambush”

      You don’t still believe that web of fiction do you ?.

      It can hardly be called an “ambush” if your leader (JT Jnr) is caught –

      - In bed with another mans wife
      - Drunk on stage at a Christian gathering
      - Using slurred and abusive words at a Christian gathering
      - Witnessed fondling sisters as they sat on his knee
      - Was a known alcoholic who drank whisky while in congregation gatherings
      - Was in a drying out clinic
      - Introduced a load of non-biblical teachings disguised as ‘divine’

      But wait,

      Plymouth Brethren Christian Church Exclusive Brethren describe this same person (James Taylor Junior) as –

      Pure. Our beloved, a man of god

      To believe such nonsense, Plymouth Brethren Christian Church Exclusive Brethren are way outside accepted realms of reality, or sensibility, even by secular standards.

      The question that then follows is ‘do PBCC EB even have standards’ ? and ‘what are they based on’ ?

      SP

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    3. SP (and whoever else)

      What do you think of this:

      The idea of an ambush pre-supposes that the person setting up the ambush purposely did Something to trip up, attack, or outsmart the one being ambushed does it not?
      If then it is admitted that the actions of Mr Taylor in 1970 was an ambush, it follows that he, being the one who set up the ambush, DID something.
      The only remaining question is WHAT he did.
      If, dear brethren, Mr Taylor engaged in an ambush, how did he lay the trap? What did he do? How did he conduct the ambush? Was it by quoting scripture? Was it by simple remonstrance?
      What was the righteous outcome of the ambush? The claim may have been that there was evil among the brethren or in some house in Aberdeen and that Mr Taylor rooted it out by an ambush. Why not deal with evil in the manner prescribed in scripture? How about dealing with it on the testimony of two or three witnesses instead of an ambush?
      If Mr Taylor conducted an ambush, would it not make some sort of sense to know how he did it? Besides all that, I thought that dealing with evil in a locality was handled by the locality, not by someone from the opposite end of the earth.
      Brethren, is Christianity about finding out if the brethren are "all the way with me" or "Mr Taylor" as the case may have become amongst us? Or is Christianity about following our Lord Jesus Christ?
      If you don't know what Mr Taylor did, why not ask someone? If you do know, how can you remain silent? If you don't care what happened in 1970 with Mr Taylor, why do you care what BDH says these days? If you don't care what BDH says, what are you waiting for?

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  12. That's the style, Maxi Mouse! Aloft the barricade, showing the colours to the cowering rank and file!

    Honourable Mouse

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    1. T.H. Anonrymouse,

      Don't take the Mickey out of me!, this is neither the time nor the place for it. ( that should be reserved for R (AKA Reginald Curry I presume)) I am trying hard to be an proper gentleman ( note how I so carefully said "Mister" in all the right places.)
      You are however quite right. I can freely Gad about right under the knows of the MOG (Maximus Gluteus) right here in his own hundred acre wood undetected.
      As concerning, Mr. Mouse, your deep exercise of a limited in a sense audience...? A piece of an ear mate, a piece of an ear I say!
      As the Sultan of Swing says, the crowd of young boys standing around in the corner, (drunk and dressed in their best white shirts and their uniform souls) "they don't give a damn about no scripture spoutin man, it aint how they learned to bank the roll"
      I have many more things to say to you, but Theophilus says you can't Bear them now.

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  13. Dot, knowing about 'Fools and Horses' is a far worse crime than watching the Royal Wedding that some of your comrades were dumped for. I am sorry to have to tell you that Mr Bruce, between designing an ergonomic office chair and a "Dora" desk for children, has condemned you to hell. And at the judgement seat, all those great men will be unanimous in condemning you. Afraid here you are the plonker.

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  14. If Brethren or their supporters are watching TV programmes, that could be a very good thing. When properly used, broadcasting, the Internet, DVDs and other channels of communication are hugely valuable. I believe future generations will look back on them as the catalysts that led to a great flourishing of knowledge, just as we look back today on the invention of printing.

    And a great flourishing of knowledge is exactly what the Brethren need. It could help to solve many of their problems.

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