This is a place for those interested in the Hales exclusive brethren cult who actively destroy families, castrate Gays, avoid paying taxes, cause suicide and murder and are told by leader Bruce D Hales to develop an utter hatred of the world!
Perfect justice is found in Christ and he is the answer to all our needs. Let God judge. Shall not the judge of all the earth do right...If anyone thinks they are without sin, let them cast the first stone.
Part one Again woeful EB Theology:http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/october1/29.70.htmlWho Are We to Judge? Did Jesus forbid us from judging others? Lewis B. Smedes/ October 1, 2001In three words, blunt and absolute, Jesus commanded us, "Do not judge" (Matt. 7:1). But did he really mean that we should never judge others? He goes on to suggest that it's not the act of judging but the attitude with which we do it that God is most concerned about—"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged" (7:2).There are other Scriptures that either cloud or shed light on the issue. Paul told the Christians in Rome not to judge one another (Rom. 14:13) but taught the Corinthians that they were to judge sinful believers and leave people outside the church to God (1 Cor. 5:12-13). James said he who judges his brother speaks against the law (4:11) but also implied that our judgments of others must be done with mercy (2:12-13).Common sense suggests that if no one ever judged other people, there would be no real human community. In a sinful world, no community can exist for long where nobody is ever held accountable: no teacher would grade a student's performance; no citizen would sit on a jury or call a failed leader to account. And, when you come to think of it, nobody would ever forgive anyone for wrongs he had done; we only forgive people for what we blame them, and we blame them only after we have judged them.I would suggest that, in our day and age, we need more—not less—judgment. Modern Americans suffer from a fear of judging. Passing judgment on the behavior of fellow human beings is considered an act of medieval, undemocratic intolerance.Why? Because, our culture tells us, we are all flawed people, and people with flaws have no right to judge other people's flaws. Furthermore, modern Americans do not believe that there are objective standards by which to judge. And where there are no standards, there is nothing by which to measure behavior.Of course, the person who takes Jesus at all seriously does not kowtow to modern relativism. Judgment, for Christians, is an important piece of work that God calls us to do, especially in a world going morally haywire.
Part 2 Again Woeful EB TheologyWhen a person judges, she also forms an opinion. But an opinion is not necessarily the same as a judgment. Opinions are often framed by our fears, pride, or ignorance. If all we had were human opinions, we might agree with those who say we should never judge.Judgments are opinions that we form only after we have made a serious effort to know the facts, and, for those of us who are Christians, only after we have consulted the moral teachings of Scripture and prayed for Spirit-informed discernment. Any lazy or biased fool can have opinions; making judgments is the hard work of responsible and compassionate people.For all of these reasons, common sense indicates that Jesus could not have meant that we are never to make judgments on what people, including ourselves, are up to.But our common sense is hardly the litmus test of what Jesus meant, for in the end it is his Word that we live by. It's helpful, then, to consider Jesus' bold command in its biblical context.Jesus may have been moved to speak as he did by the haughty way the Pharisees had of judging people. In Matthew 5:20 through 7:6, Jesus warns his disciples against following the traditions and practices of the Pharisees, who judged others as if they themselves were beyond judgment. What's more, they judged people by the letter, not the spirit, of the law.So, most likely, Jesus meant, "Do not judge at all if you judge others the way the Pharisees do. If you do judge people this way, you will be judged with the same severity." Jesus' intent comes out in his metaphor of motes and beams (Matt. 7:3-5). We all have beams in our eyes, so to speak; to judge people for the little motes stuck in their eyes while we have big beams in our own is devilish arrogance as well as folly.Nobody with a beam in his eye can see things clearly. He is dangerously low on discernment. And, since we all have this distorted perspective, we need either to be very humble or else leave judging to God alone. We have a moral responsibility to judge the moral behavior of others—but only if we are humbly aware that we will sometimes be dead wrong and never totally right. We must remember that our ability to judge is limited and especially that we are sinful people who will ourselves, one day, come under judgment
When I left the brethren I got all my stones back!!
12:32 You are stumbling way off into the Soggy Mire of Natural Reasoning.Judgement cannot be defined as "Opinion" Judges are given authority by God to make judgement in the affairs of Men and we respect that. Schools of opinion, contentions and reasoning are not of God, but of Man.Opinions are thus of little value or consequence to the truth or justice.Tony
'Judges are given authority by God to make judgement in the affairs of Men and we respect that'. That's fine Tony, but do the PBCC also respect the verdict of a UK jury? This is a question I asked Garth Christie about 6 weeks ago, but to date have no reply.I also asked him if the PBCC take claims of child abuse seriously and he hasn't responded to that either. That's very sad, because genuine mainstream churches are addressing that issue as we speak.Mark R Elliott
Shall not the judge of all the Earth do right? YesDoes a judge have authority from God? YesDoes a king have authority by divine right? YesNot popular, but it's the truth that matters.Does it mention a jury in the bible? NoDoes a jury have any authority? NoIs there an obligation to sit in a jury if Christian conscience is expressed? NoShould we fear God rather than men? YesAuthority is given to earthly judges and Kings.It is God's divine right and may his will be done.
Tony. Even the bible, is bathed within the soggy mire, of mans reasoning.For this is why men are forced to adopt faith,so as to believeExclusive brethren faithfully believe, that they will enter into eternity.Having lived their lives in separation,from familyExclusive brethren are also forced, to need to rely on their faith in the existence of eternity.Because they have no proof, that it existsIt is quite possible, that exclusive brethren lives lived in separation.Will ultimately never ever achieve anything more.Than to produce lives lived in separation. And fat pockets full of cash, for Bruce Hales and co . And an exclusive brethren legacy,of follyIn exactly the same way, that Taliban lives blown to pieces via human bombs.May also end up being of little more eternal value. Than being an eternal waste, of human lives, lost foreverTony.Can you ? prove me to be absolutely wrong Or perhaps you admit.How you wallow in the mire of mans reasoning
'Does it mention a jury in the bible? NoDoes a jury have any authority? NoIs there an obligation to sit in a jury if Christian conscience is expressed? NoI wonder whatever the PBCC are doing living in the UK, raking in tax payers money, pretending to be charitable, but NOT accepting a jury verdict in court. Does this mean that paedophile PBCC members are seen by fellow members as not guilty? Is this the 2015 excuse for having PBCC members in jail? Unheard of in my day, I have to say. I really think this point should be hammered home to the Charity Commission. Don't like the laws of this country? Then go away somewhere else and stop ripping us all off.There is a real issue here. No wonder Garth Christie doesn't answer the question.
It is very worrying that these extremists do not believe in the democratic process and the administration of justice. This may account for reckless behaviour that appears to lead to a proportionally high level of accidents; but worse, would suggest that they have no qualms concerning covering up criminal acts.Perhaps the security and intelligence authorities should monitor this group, as well as other extremist organisations.
There are scores of kings mentioned in the Bible, and nearly all of them were baddies. Joshua alone had to kill dozens of them. Would he have done that if they were ruling by divine authority?Even the kings of Israel and Judah were a pretty mixed bunch. In the New Testament we also have King Herod, who was as nasty as they come. If they all had authority by divine right, how did God manage to choose so many scoundrels? And why have democracies provided much better government than any kings ever did?
Tony,Whence bringest thou such as these thine alone wise judgements? Of a truth we are assured, surely from above. Truly ye are the people, and wisdom shall die with you! (Job 12:2)Hast thou fallen upon the Splintered Spire of Spiritual Superiority? Art thou blinded by terebinth beams abundant? But I give my opinion (1 Corinthians 7:25). You forgot to look at a dictionary before you said "cannot", you have offered opinionated contentious reasoning directly from a school of thought, and graciously supplied your readers with the source and worth of the same.Warmest greetings and thanks for the laugh its been a while. How are you these days? Or has a look in the mirror left you quite unsure?In Retrospect1 2 Mini PS, my cousin John is asking if you are interested in the movement? (he needs a few good men)
So how do you get that judgement, Tony? The correct view?
I love the response from 1 2 Mini in Peeb-speak clichés. It exposes the hypocrisy of Tony's judgement of not making judgement so well.
Anonymous19 January 2015 at 18:57You say:"Does a king have authority by divine right? YesNot popular, but it's the truth that matters."Would you be willing to go read Proverbs 30 verse 31? In the New Translation of course. I have been thinking lately, and I wonder if you could tell me who, if anyone, is the first person who comes to your mind as you read that verse?1 2 Mini
Working from the premise that kings have Divine Right as postulated by our PBCC commentator, what happens in your theology when a king delegates that authority to reign over a democratic state?Her Maj is still on our stamps, still on our coins, still has her crest on our court houses etc. She's still the Queen and has wisely lead a democratic country while remaining a godly woman.Think outside the box. Your narrow view of life is doing you no good.
Don't trouble yourselves with all this noncence. Our beloved Mr Bruce has done the hard work for us and we only need to follow him to see us thorugh.Patmos
PatmosMr. Symington said we need a liberal distribution of princes in our places. We can't leave all the heavy lifting to our beleaguered brother. We need to follow up that verse where it says " We will do the thinking, you do the doing." Don't you think?1 2 Mini
PatmosSounds a bit like JTjr speak "Follow me and I will get you to heaven". Thankfully I did not follow a womanising alcoholic.By the way do you know that in you short posting you managed to spell two words wrongly? See if you can identify them!!
See you through to what, exactly? Throughout the ages brainwashed people have blindly followed harmful, sometimes charismatic, leaders and failed to see the truth until, in many cases, it was too late.
Our EB friend does not know his history very well, I fear. It is littered with kings who claimed the divine right but used their assumed authority to murder, persecute and destroy. This year we celebrate 800 yearssince Magna Carts was signed which was the very wise beginning of those who assumed this right yielding to the rule of law.
On Friday (23 Jan 2014) Ofsted published a report grading another Christian school, Grindon Hall Christian School as “inadequate,” downgraded from the previous assessment which said “Requires improvement.” The decision has been made to put the school on “special measures.” This comes on top of the recent decision to close a Christian school in Durham.Among the key criticism of Grindon Hall School were:- The curriculum does not adequately prepare pupils for life in modern Britain. Pupils show a lack of respect and tolerance towards those who belong to different faiths, cultures or communities. - Prejudice-based bullying, while reported on, is not tackled effectively enough. Discrimination through racist or homophobic language persists. According to page 4 of the Ofsted report, the things the school needs to do to improve include:- implementing an effective programme of personal development, including sex and relationships education, so that pupils have a forum to raise issues, discuss the risks to which they may be exposed and feel better prepared to make important decisions in later life - raising pupils’ awareness of equality and diversity in Britain today so that they are respectful and tolerant to those who belong to different faiths, cultures and communities.These are not by any means the only criticisms. It is not clear whether these by themselves would have led to an “Inadequate” grading. You can read the whole Ofsted report at http://reports.ofsted.gov.uk/provider/files/2448892/urn/138567.pdfAccording to an article in today’s Sunday Times, these schools, with the support of the Christian Institute, intend to contest the claims that they are failing to teach tolerance towards other faiths and gay people. After they have exhausted the Ofsted complaints procedure, they may mount a legal challenge. Nicky Morgan, the DfE Secretary, is said by Whitehall sources to be in agreement with Ofsted. Among the complaints that parents have made about the inspection, it is alleged that a 10-year-old girl was asked to define “lesbian” and other pupils asked how they would react if someone gay or Muslim “came to this school,” and an 11-year-old girl was “asked whether she knew any lesbians and whether any family members had gay friends”.The Sunday Times article, by Sian Griffiths, Education Editor, can be found athttp://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news/uk_news/Education/article1511186.ece
Based on this account it would seem that Focus Group schools would not even get off the starting block, for a multitude of reasons, not least since pupils have been reported as making animal noises when they have seen black people on an educational programme; and have offered the opinion that gay people should be hanged.By comparison, they would probably make Grindon Hall School appear to be a den of iniquity!
It is difficult to predict how the Ofsted Inspectors would assess Focus schools under the new requirements. Some of the schools get very good exam results, which would count in their favour, but there are severe restrictions imposed on some important topics of study, such as sex and human relationships, religious education and English literature, and it is clear that the ethos that prevails among Hales Brethren, and inevitably is reflected in their children, is incompatible with the requirements to actively promote an understanding and respect for different faiths, cultures and communities. How can a school actively promote anything of the sort with any hope of success, when the parents, the trustees, their leaders and their ministries have a long tradition of actively promoting the exact opposite? Maybe Ofsted will give the teachers credit for trying, even if they cannot succeed.