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Wednesday, 26 November 2014

Suicide amongst Hales Exclusive Brethren (PBCC) members

http://wikipeebia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=43

A PBCC (Exclusive Brethren) Park Bench, found today on Gatley Hill Park, Gatley, Stockport, less than a mile from where David Beech committed suicide on the railway line near Gatley Station. 

David Beech committed suicide because he couldn’t bear the prospect of his family being broken up because of EB separation policies. 

There has never been a public apology and clearly the brethren have no conscience or guilt because if they had they would not have placed this bench in shameless self promotion. 

At the very least the brethren could have inscribed the plaque – 

“Donated by the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church in Memory of David Beech - We are Sorry”

Where is the compassion, love & christianity that the PBCC (Exclusive Brethren), signed up to in the Charity Commission agreement of Jan 2014 ?


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_________________
The distinction between cult and religion lies squarely in how those leaving or those wanting to leave are treated

45 comments:

  1. What's a park bench got to do with suicide? It really is daft to assume it was done to spite someone or insult the memory of a person.

    Donating benches for public use is a nice gesture and is quite common.

    A post like this shows the desparate lengths some will go to discredit generosity. I suspect that the person who did this is driven by selfishness and vengence. How sad!

    Fanny Adams

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. FA

      This particular park bench is different

      If you are unable or unwilling to understand how insensitive & crass this action is then you and the pbcc have a very unfeeling unchristian hard heart and closed conscience.

      It shows a serious lack of compassion. The pbcc know the events that led up to Mr Beech’s suicide & they know where it took place. Knowing those tragic facts it would have been common decency (even Christian compassion) to avoid placing a self promoting park bench anywhere in the area.

      But no, the pbcc indulge in shameless insensitive self promotion

      Very unchristian

      Delete
    2. Fanny Adams generosity is a very wonderful thing.But the point that is being made here within this post though, is about our need of questioning why this generosity wasn't able to go so far, so as to also be able to have displayed a far better sense of generosity, toward David Beech

      This post points out how the exclusive brethren are busy with trying to buy their way into being able to be publicly looked upon, as a group that is harmless and of great beneficial to our society.

      When the truth is, that this kind of public charade that the exclusive brethren PR machine is currently involved in, is merely but a thin disguise,purposely designed to try and cover up and hide many other ongoing harmful issues, of a very longstanding exclusive brethren nature

      The brethren have still failed to correct their ongoing issues of nastiness. As can be plainly seen by the reports of yet another suicide, which has only just happened within the past few weeks.

      People can read the report of this latest suicide here http://laurencemoffitt.blogspot.co.nz/2014/11/the-evil-hales-exclusive-brethren.html

      Fanny Adams , do you think that our governments should choose to be involved, in supporting groups whom have continually chosen to cause harm.Groups whom have also totally refused to compensate many people for harm that they have been caused.

      By the act of agreeing to continually issue these harmful groups with charity status. Because of gifts of a few park benches

      Is that all that the loss of these deceased peoples lives, are thought to be worth. Can the continued loss of these peoples lives,really be so easily glossed over, by the cunning strategic placement, of a few park benches

      Delete
    3. 22:45 Now who rattled your cage?

      Let's be clear - It wasn't Fanny Adam's generousity. How did you arrive at that? The bench was actually donated by the PBCC as a simple gesture of kindness.
      I would certainly like to park my weary rear on such a sturdy thing aaaah!
      Futhermore, what is so "cunning" about a park bench? What kind of a twisted little brain have you got that can contrive such a mean thought. Give us a break and go and do something useful.



      Delete
  2. I tend to agree with Fanny -
    The post does give the impression that the bench was donated to promote the PBCC, but l think that it was donated to benefit the community. What's all the fuss about?
    Personally, l think it's a failed attempt to accuse a people of being cynical about that man's tragic death. Taking your own life is not the will of God. He is not willing that anyone should perish.

    Jim

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jim 21:30
      If the bench was donated to benefit the community as you suggest, this is something the EB have done for some time

      Perhaps you'd tell all where the ones are from the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's
      If you have trouble finding some, the EB will have a photo archive of them as they have for their pie & Bible days
      Thank you

      As to 'Taking your own life is not the will of God. He is not willing that anyone should perish', I have noticed that it is the will of some current EB members about ex members

      Jim

      Delete
    2. Are you the same Jim that said he is looking into issues I raised in another thread?

      If it is, how are you getting on?

      Mark R Elliott

      Delete
    3. 15.02 Those hundreds of benches donated in the 60s 70s 80s 90s, have been exposed to weather, so just because you didn't notice any, doesn't mean they weren't there ...
      Ahhh nothing is so soothing to one's weary rear as a nice park bench :)

      Delete
    4. Especially if the rear is rather large through lack of exercise, too much eating and alcohol. Now, surely the metal advertising plates might still be intact....I can't imagine the benches were placed without publicity of some sort? Come off it, dear commentator, you, and the remainder of us know, that these donations only flourished from about last year onwards in a clumsy attempt to appeal to the Charity Commission, and others. Why are PBCC donations so widely publicised? Is it charitable giving, or self promotion?

      Delete
  3. Hmm 'Fanny', not sure if you're a member of the normal outside world or an EB. But in the outside world it is very common for benches to be donated in memory of a loved one who has passed on, in a special spot that they'd loved.

    Hence, for the Brethren to site one of their own advertising benches less than a mile from the spot where someone took his life in horrific circumstances because he couldn't bear the family separation the Brethren were inflicting upon him, is insensitive to the point of grotesquery... in the eyes of most people with normal (nonEB) sensibilities I think.

    Not sure if this will help you understand how others see this.... but I tried.

    ReplyDelete
  4. "It really is daft to assume it was done to spite someone or insult the memory of a person."

    The only person who has suggested that is Fanny Adams. Seems like conscience overrides innocent words. How awful to have to live with that mindset.

    ReplyDelete
  5. Jim says: "The post does give the impression that the bench was donated to promote the PBCC". I think it's fair to assume that's the truth. I see no real evidence of genuine altruistic intent by the PBCC, just a cynical attempt to convince the Charity Commission that they're bona fide charities, meaning they can continue to claim Gift Aid etc.

    ReplyDelete
  6. 23.23 Correction dear friend -
    l think it's your mindset that is completely wrong, not Sweet FA's.

    This is not the first bench donation and this particular spot would have been approved by the local authority. By the way, many benches have been placed up and down the country without objection. Does anyone have a problem with a nice bench to sit on? I think not. Don't be so bent on causing trouble.
    Nothing to be gained from it.
    I really see no issue to be had and thus zero basis to cast a slur against the PBCC and their genuine efforts to contribute.
    Some of these comments here are very petty and others expose the rotten mindset of some who have left Christianity for an easier way.
    Demas, having loved the present age (the world) left Paul. If we seek an easier way' it will be the world's way. One or the other.
    Either we suffer along with the people of God or we are part of this world's system which is under judgement. We are in the final days.
    With Christ there are the unsearchable riches, but with the world there is spiritual poverty for those that turn away from the Grace of God.
    Will we wonder and perish or will we avail ourselves of his grace today?

    Make the right and happy choice.









    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 27th Nov 12:34
      “This is not the first bench donation……By the way, many benches have been placed up and down the country without objection…..”

      That might be true, however, as was stated in 26th Nov 21:34 –

      This particular park bench is different

      If you are unable or unwilling to understand how insensitive & crass this action is then you and the pbcc have a very unfeeling unchristian hard heart and closed conscience.

      It shows a serious lack of compassion. The pbcc know the events that led up to Mr Beech’s suicide & they know where it took place. Knowing those tragic facts it would have been common decency (even Christian compassion) to avoid placing a self promoting park bench anywhere in the area.

      But no, the pbcc indulge in shameless insensitive self promotion

      27th Nov 12:34
      “rotten mindset of some who have left Christianity for an easier way.”

      I can assure you I haven’t left Christianity, I am a Christian saved by the blood of Christ, I am not part of the pbcc exclusive brethren, but I am part of Christ’s assembly which is His church, His body, praise His name. Being outside the pbcc exclusives & being a Christian is certainly not an “easier way”

      27th Nov 12:34
      “Demas, having loved the present age (the world) left Paul. If we seek an easier way' it will be the world's way. One or the other.”

      Demas left Paul, but the scripture does not say he left Christ, which is what you are trying to imply. Here is a scholarly selection which might enlighten -

      Ellicott’s commentary
      “Having loved ease and safety, chose rather to live daintily at home than to suffer affliction, than to endure hardship, with me, and with me to bear these present dangers.”

      Meyer's NT Commentary
      2 Timothy 4:10. Δημᾶς γάρ με ἐγκατέλιπεν] ἐγκαταλείπειν is equivalent to “leave in the lurch.” It is wrong to interpret this either of a departure from the place merely, or of an entire apostasy from the gospel. Demas is mentioned also in Colossians 4:14 and Philemon 1:24 as a σύνεργος of the apostle”

      Pulpit Commentary
      Having loved this present world. It would appear from this that Demas had not the faith or the courage to run the risk of sharing St. Paul's imminent martyrdom at Rome, but left him, while he was free to do so, under pretence of an urgent call to Thessaloniea; just as Mark left Paul and Barnabas (Acts 13:13). But there is no ground to believe that he was an apostate from the faith.”

      Furthermore, “having loved this present world” does not necessarily mean he turned to loving sin and debauchery, it can also mean seeking wealth, power, possessions, etc, something which pbcc exclusive brethren are very focused on. Does that mean the pbcc eb are the “easier way” ?

      27th Nov 12:34
      “easier way”

      Leaving the pbcc exclusive brethren is not seeking an easier way because the exclusives divide families and cut off persons if they leave, which is not an easier way to take is it ?

      Those leaving the pbcc exclusives, throw off the chains of bondage to a system invented by men because exclusives do not follow what the scriptures teach, they follow rules invented by Taylor, Symington & Hales

      For example, the Christian faith & Christian Bible does not teach –

      separation from all other Christians & Christian Churches, separation from all non members, refusing to eat or drink with any other Christians or non members, dividing families if a person leaves, that to leave pbcc exclusives is to leave Christianity, all other Christians are in error, that pbcc exclusives are the only ones with the ‘truth’, that pbcc exclusives are ‘The Assembly’

      Yet, pbcc exclusives teach & practice all of these. The Pharisees in the Bible bound the people in chains of laws & hypocrisy which took the people away from God, and look what Christ said to them !

      Delete
    2. 09:47 Notion of a clergyman?

      The clergy is the flesh dressed up, but it's rotten all the way through...the flesh does not profit...

      Delete
    3. I think your comment is based on ignorance and bigotry, dear friend, a lot of clergy do not dress up, as you put it, and for the most part follow the scriptures rather than the "ministry" of discredited and hollow, fleshly men!

      Delete
    4. "The clergy is the flesh dressed up, but it's rotten all the way through...the flesh does not profit..." Are you sure you are allowed to say that about our beloved Bruce Hales, who as the leaded of the one and only true church is basically the universe's leading clergyman?

      Delete
    5. Anon @ 7th Dec 17:04

      Your contribution is rather odd

      The post you reply to (which is the one at 28th Nov @ 09:47) does not mention anything about ‘clergyman’ or the ‘notion of a clergyman’ !, so why have you raised that issue ?

      The post @ 09:47 does quote some extracts from well known Christian commentators, but whats wrong with that ?

      The Exclusive Brethren (PBCC) quote from JN Darby’s commentaries (and JT’s & Hales, all the time) so they obviously don’t think quoting from commentaries is bad or, rotten, or fleshly !

      However,

      Put all the commentaries to one side and just focus on what the Bible says and its still obvious the interpretation PBCC Exclusive Brethren try to place on the Demas incident from 2 Timothy 4, can not be supported by the biblical text.

      Clergy / Pastors / Elders

      You the PBCC EB have a very warped & unbiblical view of this topic

      The Bible which is Gods Word clearly instructs a Christian Church to appoint, and place shepherds (Pastors), elders & deacons in local church leadership roles (See 1 Timothy 3, Titus 1, Ephesians 4, Acts 20, 1 Peter 5, 1 Thessalonians 5, 1 Timothy 4, 1 Timothy 5, and many more)

      If Exclusive Brethren had obeyed Gods Word re pastors, shepherds, elders, deacons, instead of ignoring it, then they wouldn’t be in such a mess now and the alcoholic womanising leader James Taylor Junior would never have been allowed to take over leadership in 1959.

      Most Christian Churches outside the established national denominations (Church of England, Wales, Scotland etc) do not have clergy in the sense the Exclusive Brethren PBCC are taught, so they don’t wear robes of office, they don’t have symbols, they don’t have incense etc.

      But you, the Exclusive Brethren PBCC, wouldn’t know any of that because you are not allowed to have fellowship, worship or communion with any other Christian in any other Church

      Your ignorance is sad & to be pitied. To label all pastors, shepherds, elders, deacons as ‘the flesh’ ‘rotten’ etc, when the Bible teaches such leadership positions are correct is the height of ignorance & lack of biblical Christian understanding.

      Delete
  7. 23.23 Correction dear friend -
    l think it's your mindset that is completely wrong, not Sweet FA's.

    This is not the first bench donation and this particular spot would have been approved by the local authority. By the way, many benches have been placed up and down the country without objection. Does anyone have a problem with a nice bench to sit on? I think not. Don't be so bent on causing trouble.
    Nothing to be gained from it.
    I really see no issue to be had and thus zero basis to cast a slur against the PBCC and their genuine efforts to contribute.
    Some of these comments here are very petty and others expose the rotten mindset of some who have left Christianity for an easier way.
    Demas, having loved the present age (the world) left Paul. If we seek an easier way' it will be the world's way. One or the other.
    Either we suffer along with the people of God or we are part of this world's system which is under judgement. We are in the final days.
    With Christ there are the unsearchable riches, but with the world there is spiritual poverty for those that turn away from the Grace of God.
    Will we wonder and perish or will we avail ourselves of his grace today?

    Make the right and happy choice.









    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I’m sure the benches in themselves are welcome. In fact, thank-you PBCC/EB for doing something beneficial to those outside your group. Just remember it’s the heart attitude that God is looking for. The17th book of Jeremiah has some interesting words for those who do things to impress rather than to bless:


      9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and incurable; who can know it?
      10 I Jehovah search the heart, I try the reins, even to give each one according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings.

      Luke 16: 13 - 15 expounds this further:

      13 No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and will love the other, or he will cleave to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
      14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things, and mocked him.
      15 And he said to them, *Ye* are they who justify themselves before men, but God knows your hearts; for what amongst men is highly thought of is an abomination before God.

      And let’s get this totally clear. You imply leaving the PBCC means you have left Christ. That is not necessarily true. By no means are the PBCC the only place where Christians are found. That is a self-created delusion.

      Delete
    2. Anon 12.34/LJO/PBCC commentator

      You are very repetitive; is the account of Demas the only one you know?? You have been corrected on your misinterpretation before, yet still seem to be unable to grasp the scriptures; this is odd since it is supposed to constitute your main reading material - after the ministry, of course.

      I think those who left the corrupted body of the EB/PBCC chose the more difficult way, because they often lost family, home and finance. In terms of Christianity, many found it for the first time.

      How great your ignorance and the darkness in which you reside. Make the happy choice and take leave of bigotry, ignorance, hypocrisy, materialism, alcoholism, deceit, and lack of Christian compassion for those who may be different to you and your superior, but terribly flawed, mindset.

      Francis

      Delete
    3. Anon/LJO/PBCC cult spokesman12.34.

      You are becoming very repetitive; you have told us about your misinterpretation of the Demas account on various occasions, having been corrected each time. This is strange as the Bible is the only literature you are reputed to read, following on from the nonsense that passes for "ministry", of course.

      People who have left your cult have usually chosen the hard way because they have often had to forsake family, job, home and finance. Many discovered Christianity for the first time, despite having spent countless hours in meetings of the EB/PBCC.

      Don't dwell in ignorance and darkness. Why not make the wise and happy choice and depart from a world of materialism, hypocrisy, alcoholism, abuse, bigotry, deceit and self-delusion. You would then find more meaning to life than spending your time on here fruitlessly defending the indefensible.

      Francis

      Delete
  8. I doubt the EB would have told the Authority about the suicide!

    ReplyDelete
  9. Oh and by the way, your own website says that people not in the brethren can be Christians so you cannot say people who leave the brethren have left Christianity.

    ReplyDelete
  10. In a few days' time it will be the anniversary of David's death on December 1st 1983 and people who cared about him will remember him particularly then. The rest of us will think of his horrible death with sadness and sorrow because it seems he ended his life in pain and anguish because of the way the Exclusive Brethren had treated him.

    I can understand why it comes over as an inconsiderate act to place this self-referring bench in a nearby location at Gatley, and I've asked myself how the PBCC in Stockport could ever have made such an egregious mistake. It won't help those who still mourn David's death, but I've noticed that the Hales Exclusive Brethren/PBCC sometimes make basic mistakes when it comes to public relations. In Australia a spokesman got his ancient history all wrong; in New Zealand a 'brother' responding to the media said something foolish about the Bible; in England a spokesman showed himself ignorant about services in cathedrals.

    Perhaps on this occasion enough thought wasn't given to the impact the siting of this bench would have on those who knew David personally or knew of him. In most mainstream churches a decision of this kind would be made in consultation with the church council or a group of elders and people would be free to question the suitability of such a project. It seems likely that that kind of procedure didn't happen in this case. If there was an assembly consultation and the PBCC decided to proceed without taking into account the sensitivity of the site at Gatley I'd be extremely worried about the Brethren mindset.

    ReplyDelete
  11. Joan..Try not to assume what procedure the brethren did or didn't take.
    The mindset of these people is different from yours and mine. Well, just accept it wirhout over analysing what they were or weren't thinking at the time.
    You have known the brethren for all these years, yet make out you don't.

    Drama classes cancelled.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Garth Christie told the Committee in Parliament that the Brethren welcomed scrutiny.

      Delete
    2. Anonymous 28 Nov 2014 - 22.27
      You have obviously been following Joan's posts for some time yet don't understand what she has said!
      Joan has said on a number of occasions that in the 1950's she had a schoolteacher who belonged to the Exclusive Brethren and whom she greatly respected. Of course in those days the EB did treat other Christians with respect, were free to have a meal with them, and had a good testimony amongst those who knew them.
      Sadly the impact of James Taylor Junior's ministry changed all that so the mindset of the EB changed
      History lesson over.

      Delete
    3. Anon 22.27 I find your notion of a different mindset to normal folk (assuming you in include yourself in such a category) rather worrying. Would you mean a different mindset as might be found in criminal behaviour, inability to conform, outside the law, and so on? To typify a group of people so raises many questions as to their legitimacy as functioning members of society, let alone whether they should be financed by that society.

      Delete
  12. "some who have left Christianity for an easier way."

    No, actually some have left the EB/PBCC cult for Christianity.

    "Make the right and happy choice."

    Yes, just try and get free from Mr Hales' ownership of you and you'll never have been more right, nor more happy! Well said.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The jailor said 'Sirs, what must I do that I may be saved?'
      The scripture 1 Tim 1 v19,20 is notable
      Peter

      Delete
    2. Peter,

      Correct

      And that statement in Acts 16 by Paul & Silas, “Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved..” applies inside and outside of Exclusive Brethrenism. In other words, persons do not have to be ‘in any’ Exclusive Brethren group (there are smaller Exclusive Brethren groups), for that statement to apply. Believing in the Lord Jesus is not tied to a particular Exclusive Brethren group.

      Paul & Silas do NOT say ““Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved..BUT you must belong to X group to be a proper Christian”

      Persons can (and many do) leave Exclusive Brethren groups and remain saved by Christ, growing in their personal spiritual and Christian life having thrown off the chains of bondage to a system of man. Exclusive Brethrenism of all types (Hales, Renton, Frosts, TW’s etc) is a system of man, because it follows what “men say” (JND, JT Senior, JT Junior, Symington, Hales), and not what the Bible says.

      D

      Delete
    3. Peter
      Could you expand a little as to the point you are making. Verse 19 speaks of holding fast to faith and a good conscience.
      Personally speaking I did not have a good conscience during my final years in the EB in the period leading up to July 1970. I was most unhappy with what was taking place but lacked the maturity and the guts to take a stand against the nonsense that was being promulgated as authoritative ministry.
      Pilate ignored his conscience and passed his responsibility to others and as a consequence Jesus was crucified.

      Delete
    4. Yes 'Peter' you post is lacking substance - just oblique references. What do you mean?
      (If it's just EB rhetoric and you don't understand either, tell us what you *think* it might mean)

      Delete
    5. My point is the Exclusive Brethren don't seem to have a good conscience
      That is why they won't speak to outsiders or welcome them in to a service
      They don't answer honest enquiry
      This is furthered on here by the likes of LJO and a Jim
      Verse 20 is very solemn. Have the EB been given up to Satan too, and that is why they are so deceitful
      Dear EB members, to be saved you need to get out of the 'system' and come to Christ
      Peter

      Delete
  13. A reply to Anonymous 28 November 2014 22:27.

    I often picture my experience of the Taylor/Symington/Hales Exclusive Brethren as a palimpsest. In the ancient world when scribes wrote on expensive vellum or parchment it wasn't uncommon for them to scrape or wash off an earlier composition in order to write afresh on the newly scrubbed surface. Manuscript scholars today use photography and ultraviolet light to decipher the previous underwriting, and this has sometimes been useful in reading early New Testament and Christian documents.

    When inquirers ask me about my experience of the Exclusive Brethren I usually find they have some knowledge of how the PBCC operates today, but I always show them the 'original' text beneath that account. My personal 'palimpsest' reveals that the Taylorite Exclusive Brethren people I knew before the 1960s ate and drank with non-Brethren people, were able to go away to university to study and were free to follow careers in the civil service, medicine, teaching, pharmacy and so on. A very different picture of previous Exclusive Brethren values and practice emerges from this underwriting.

    In the 1940s and 1950s I wasn't aware of reports of any suicides connected with the Exclusive Brethren in my area.

    Finally, in writing my earlier piece in this thread I was hoping that the PBCC would consider that the siting of this particular bench in Gatley might be regarded as inconsiderate by those who had known David Beech and were aware of his death nearby. Many churches actively welcome feedback from outsiders because it informs them about the views and feelings of the wider public whom they seek to serve. I try to provide feedback based on my positive encounters with pre-1960s Exclusive Brethren people, a long experience of Exclusive Brethren interpersonal separation since the time of James Taylor Jnr's leadership, and the study I have made of the Brethren movement from its inception in Dublin in the late 1820s.

    ReplyDelete
  14. It is interesting what you say, Joan. The insensitivity displayed by the Exclusive Brethren not just in this particular case but also on other occasions in their interaction with those outside their sect is in my opinion caused to some extent at least by their limited social interaction with a wide and diverse range of friends and colleagues which most people enjoy. Obviously they deal with customers in their commercial relationships but this is supposed to be on a solely business basis which precludes the development of friendships.
    After leaving the EB over 40 years ago I found my circle of friends (both Christian and non-Christian) helped me to develop as an individual and an important part of that development was to realise that each individual is different and I need to be sensitive to that fact.
    Conformity to EB practice and behaviour seems to stifle the development of an understanding of the feelings of those outside their sect and this may explain but not excuse their insensitivity

    ReplyDelete
  15. I have often seen benches placed in memory of loved and remembered people. I have sat on a good few. I am not sure I understand why a bench is placed to advertise the donor. Unless, of course, a local business was trying to offset public distaste for some of their activities, or trying to sweeten the public towards their brand in readiness for an activity that might otherwise prompt outcry.

    Looks like the PBCC is either trying to dampen public anger, or be seen to be doing good works outside of their membership.

    I'd prefer to see a bench with a label to remember someone, rather than one that advertises the donor.

    Sad, too, that it has been placed so insensitively.

    But let's not be too hasty to condemn the EB; they have been secretive and closed for so long that they really don't know any better.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Why don't you donate a park bench, instead of knocking other peoples generosity. You are an evil sick person, and I hope you get help.
    The only reason you keep attacking the pbcc that you know it is better than you.
    And don't come back with a retort why you are better, it will just show you up even more for the sick individual you are.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Concerning your rambling comment, I will answer for the commentator to whom you are so abusive. PBCC Ltd donation of benches only started when the organisation came under pressure to prove charitable status; therefore, the actions come with a rather shallow motive. There were not any donations of these before 2013, I believe; also they are not placed without advertising the sponsor; this is then recorded for publicity.

      I do hope this helps....

      Delete
    2. "The only reason you keep attacking the pbcc that you know it is better than you." Better than me at what? Drunkenness, idolatry, abuse (predominantly of women and children), cruelty, dishonesty, immorality, blasphemy? Ah yes, you are so right. Point taken! And I think it's a great idea about donating a bench. I'm thinking suburban Aberdeen and then if some drunkards use it and leave whisky bottles lying around, it will add authenticity to the memorial rather than desecrate it!

      Evil & Sick

      Delete
  17. To Gal 5.1 and Anon 2 December:

    Feedback from outsiders is essential for groups which are in any way funded from the public purse and most organisations actively encourage it.

    The PBCC showed itself able to respond appropriately in January-February 2013 when its Focus Learning Trust withdrew their glossy 44 page publication of a list of books which they considered unsuitable for use in Focus schools. It seemed at the time that they moved on this because of the outcry from people outside the PBCC who were concerned that excellent children's and young people's literature and text books were banned from use in Focus schools.

    In my view, it's important to continue to draw attention to errors which the PBCC makes out of ignorance. I'm disappointed that they don't seem to have established a forum where people who are concerned can discuss with them all the difficulties that have arisen because of their separatist position.

    ReplyDelete
  18. I do not think there can any rational process or consultation about benches, or anything else, I expect local authorities are approached and the benches are placed wherever the location is deemed worthy of the small expense . I would imagine some authorities might stipulate that the benches should not have the names of the donor, as it is a form of advertising for an organisation. I doubt whether the PBCC would consider placing an anonymously donated bench as there would not be any publicity value regarding charitable status. It is debatable whether such gestures constitute charitable giving since there is not a specific deficit made good by the gift; park benches are readily available. However it does represent an avenue for sanitised "charity" avoiding contact with genuinely needy people such as the homeless, those with physical and mental instability, addiction and so.


    ReplyDelete
  19. The PBCC have clearly not read Jesus' words about doing your charitable works in secret.

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  20. Hi to you all
    I've read lots of comments with interest . If I may I would like to add my own .. This is the very first time I have ever posted anything like this before so please I ask you to gently bare with me ... I come from a family who grew up in the exclusive brethren .. who's life within was to say sheltered ... my father grew to be concerned as to where things were being directed and asked to meet one of the latest 'leaders' . Rather than be given the opportunity to do so he was summonsed to meting where he and his young wife were thrown out into the world (I was just 1 yrs old) . This ment separation from all they knew and from those they had loved all their lives Inc mothers.
    To cut a long story short this had major implications for my childhood as I struggled to understand a God who loves against seeing little here either at home with parents trying to cope and hearing of many people we later met having family members they could no longer see .. For me deep rooted hurt grew as I belived I would be rejected ..I felt a failed and lost child who could never live up to pleasing either man or God .. I learnt to push my closest away Inc family , close friends , and even marriages . This has lead to suiside attempts . Where by the grace of God I still live (not cries for help) . I can understand why this man felt compelled to take his life . I am a product of what happens when families are torn apart .. please know that I am now healing and have before the Lord forgiven those who brought so much pain .. im sure there are many more who's lives have been effected by this .. Thank you for reading .. your humble servant in the Lord

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