Thursday, 6 November 2014

A salutary word for the Hales exclusive brethren


  1. J N Darby’s comments in the extract posted above are indeed a salutary lesson for the 2012 rebranded Plymouth Brethren Christian Church PBCC (aka Exclusive Brethren, Taylorites).

    The problem is that the PBCC EB group as they are today have drifted and departed from the principles laid out by the early Brethren pre 1848. There is a great disconnect between what the Brethren practiced back then and the doctrines / practices now.

    If JN Darby could have applied his own comments quoted to the whole Bethesda / Newton issues of 1848, then possibly the resultant division in the Plymouth Brethren (as they were called back then) might not have been so destructive & damaging. That division split the Plymouth Brethren into two distinct & entirely separate groups which were the Open Brethren and the Exclusive Brethren.

    After 1848 JN Darby & others took the Exclusive Brethren down an ever increasing sectarian path. I note in the comments quoted that there is a clear link with “winning persons back to God and to us” as if the two are intertwined. What about those who left the Brethren due to Christian conscience & went to another Christian Church maintaining full Christian fellowship with God along the way ??

    JN Darby’s comment about “sins that have been retained” is also a lesson for the PBCC EB as they continue creating harm & detriment with no change or repentance in sight, despite the agreement with the Charity Commission in Jan 2014

  2. I haven't been able to discover when exactly the passage quoted at the head of this thread was written by John Darby - Volume 15 of the Bible Treasury was published two or three years after his death in 1882. William Kelly had responsibility for this magazine, so I suppose it's possible that he might have included something from an earlier private correspondence with JND.

    It's evidenced elsewhere in John Darby's writings that towards the end of his life he was fed up with the Brethren and had even contemplated leaving the group. He didn't at all like the way some Brethren were behaving - not eating with household members who weren't in fellowship, for example - so perhaps these thoughts were penned around that time.

    I know how grateful I was in the late 1950s when a member of this group of Exclusive Brethren responded from her heart with lovingkindness towards me, a sixteen year old whose mother was dying. I've always hoped to find again the same standard of goodness and care from Exclusive Brethren people, but sadly James Taylor Junior's 1960s' separatist teachings have prevailed since then.

  3. 13.07 Rev, Have your ever read that wonderful verse? "Where are thine accusers?"
    "Neither do l condemn thee"
    Do you know who those words were uttered by? ...Jesus...
    Well, here's some questions -

    1 Do you think for a moment Jesus would support your words against the PBCC?
    2 Do you read, know and value the Bible?
    3 Do you think your comments may be causing "Harm and Detriment"?
    4 Has there been "Change and Repentance" in your life?

    See - all these questions are healthy ones.
    They apply to us all. Nevertheless, Christ died in our place. What grace and love.
    The person of Christ is so beautiful!

    Therefore it's neither intelligent or wise to accuse those for whom Christ died for.
    May his light shine into all those dark places in your heart. Nothing is hidden from that light. When we are forgiven much, we forgive others likewise. As we contemplate the attitude of grace and kindness of Jesus towards that woman, we cannot accuse those whom Christ has redeemed.
    Ahh let not a spot may hidden lurk.

    May we therefore repent before grace runs out. Time is running out folks..That's right.
    Christ is soon to come on clouds of glory.

    Will we be ready?

    1. Anonymous 7 November 2014 14:15
      13.07 Rev, Have your ever read that wonderful verse? "Where are thine accusers?"
      "Neither do l condemn thee"
      Wasn't this said by The Lord when some people with extremist views wanted to destroy family life, and He put his finger on something to stop them

      It reminds me of the EB / PBCC, that cult with extremist views that destroys families, and of their supporters on blogs (Leo, Jim etc)
      When a scriptural comment is made or question asked, they fall away and have no answer

    2. Anonymous 7 November 2014 14:15 'Therefore it's neither intelligent or wise to accuse those for whom Christ died for.'

      Hmmm, so why did lawyers acting on behalf of the PBCC send me threatening letters from Italy, USA and the UK following a remark I made on peebs.net, before it mysteriously disappeared?

      I'm no longer PBCC, but Christ still died for me.

      Everywhere I look within the PBCC, I see double standards.

      Mark R Elliott

  4. Another BR post shot down in flanes.
    Well done LJO, Jim or whoever you are....

    Next please

    1. So, you're deluded too?

    2. No, I'm a peeb and I went to a peeb skool so im delooded.

      Loe J

  5. Yes yes yes Anonymous 14:15, a lot of Christian folk here would agree with you (give or take the peeb speak) but this website deals with issues pedalled by the unchristian PBCC cult which has no connection with your words above. You say things like this yet in reality you ditch them all in favour of worshipping that obese money-grabbing flock-laundering self-important furniture salesman in Australia. When are you going to stick with one side of the story?

  6. Thank you for your timely word, Leonardo; you clearly don't suffer any form of correction; it has been previously been pointed out that there is only one cloud; you may have been studying too many sunsets from the bottom of your tumbler

    1. Jesus would be appalled by the PBCC Ltd (to put it in your simplistic terms). I think he would be very angry, indeed , at how He is misrepresented and His name taken in vain.
    2. The Rev manifestly reads, knows and values the Bible as he gives us plenty of informative illustrations to that effect; whilst you give us none, apart from a few platitudes that might come from an old EB tract.
    3. Rev's comments don't cause harm and detriment, rather they support folk who have been damaged, hurt and harmed by the your cult.
    4. Rather than worry about the Rev's life - look to your own, as clearly you are an unrepentant, mischief maker, without compassion for those who have been so badly wronged by your cult.

  7. Anonymous7 November 2014 14:15

    Hello Leo/Jim/Peeb Advocate

    The passage your refer to in John 8 is about a woman caught in adultery, maybe she was a type for Mrs Ker? Anyway, she was caught and Jesus challenged her accusers to throw the first stone if they were sin free. No one claimed this and the accusers drifted away leaving Jesus with the fallen woman. Not only did He not accuse her, He told her to sin no more. As always forgiveness and no longer sinning (walking away from sin/repentance go together). Jesus saw her heart, recognised this repentance and removed her sin. Curiously, the man with whom she was in adultery was not mentioned. Maybe a type for JT Jnr who likewise did the 'not me, not me' charade?

    Moving on ...

    1 I think Jesus would be appalled at the behaviour of the PBCC. Remember, forgiveness follows repentance, a continuation of sin, detriment and harm does not lead to forgiveness of sins. And if it did, what about 'what a man sows, so shall he reap'? Meaning there are consequences, both now and in eternity for evil actions.

    2 I think you answer this question yourselves so often. Brother Rev runs rings around you with his knowledge of the Bible (not that that is so hard, you seem not to know much). Not once have you replied with a theological challenge to any of the Bible passages laid out to correct your wayward behaviour and beliefs.

    3 Detriment and Harm? No. The TRUTH will set you free, and you shall be free indeed.

    4 Brother Rev confesses to being a Christian. This is only possible by repentance and faith towards Jesus. You cannot be born a Christian. Infant-baptism does not make you a Christian, partaking of the Lord's Supper does not make you a Christian. Just repentance (change) and faith towards Jesus.

    Dear deceived Peeb/Ex-Peeb, break free from this cult. Life is better than this!

    1. Madeline Ker must be the most famous woman in the world. She would be the second most famous if some woman had been caught naked under a sheet with the Pope, with Monica Lewinski coming in a close third.

      I wonder how life has been for her? Has she been the most envied sister for the last 40+ years having been privy to the privates of one of these great men?

      No doubt Jim can enlighten us. Although he's not a peeb he apparently has access to the peeb sordid archives.

  8. A reminder to EB/PBCC accusers: "...it's neither intelligent or wise to accuse those for whom Christ died for." (Bad English, by the way)

  9. A thought has been given in the last few days
    There may be claims that the church is in decline, but 3 groups are perhaps not
    They have good numbers including young persons, modern comfortable buildings, enthusiasm, faith of a sort, success, material blessing and they present well

    The groups are Exclusive Brethren (EB/PBCC), Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormans (Latter Day Saints)

    All 3 claim to uphold marriage and promote family, but in practice there are cases where marriage is broken and families divided
    All 3 have extra to the Bible, spurious writings, ministry and books, which are given equal or even more important status than the Scriptures
    All 3 in conversation have to run on their track and their thinking

    Worst of all, all 3 groups, don't accept the Deity of Christ and who He is

    Their perceived success is not Divine, it is because of Satan and the scope he is being allowed at the present time

    The Word to consider is what the Brethren Movement founder JND did;
    2 Cor 6 v17 Wherefore come out from the midst of them, and be separated, saith
    [the] Lord

    You trapped EB members, please leave and get to Christ

    1. One point of correction, Matthew: the Exclusive Brethren say that they accept Christ’s divinity. Some have thought they don’t because they don’t accept his eternal sonship, but that is a questionable inference. Many of the EB notions are eccentric, heterodox, heretical, blasphemous or downright crazy, but they have often affirmed Christ’s divinity, and never to my knowledge denied it.

    2. Thank you Ian
      I understand your comment and agree they say what you say' as to Christ's divinity
      My experience including recently, is that in practice it is different
      They put their leader and their system / ministry ahead of Christ and the Bible
      That is why I feel the rank and file of EB members have a problem with Christ and who he is
      As is so much the case with EB, their claims are different to their actions

    3. Yes I agree. It is hardly consistent for EB members to say they subscribe to Christ’s divinity while they espouse values so different from his and flout and contradict so many of his teachings. If they were really convinced by Jesus’ ministry, you would expect them to try to do as he says, not as the EB ministry says. It is just not possible to obey both of them.

  10. A well known saying amongst EBs is, "Christ is the test of every man, but Paul is the test of every Christian." So their preference is to be submissive to "the Paul of our day", which is why they go by what is "proceeding from BDH currently" in preference to the example of Christ in the Gospels. This confirms what Ian says.