Friday, 17 October 2014

The Hales 'system' rolls on.....


  1. A land flowing with guilt and money?

    1. UBT
      All seems to very nicely presented.
      Well done.

    2. Is the formation of a sentence in excess of five words beyond these illiterate hypocrites? Get it write UBT iz awsum.

  2. Can we assume therefore that the rapture co-ordination will not be completed this year?

  3. Just a typical mainstream Church.............

  4. Yesterday I went to the newly opened Germany exhibition at the British Museum. It's not a huge exhibition but it's well presented and the books, artefacts, paintings and prints on display all help to challenge ignorance and induce thoughtfulness and a willingness to learn more.

    Most similar exhibitions these days contain timelines in one form or another, and as I travelled home I thought about the kind of exhibition that a museum could mount about the Exclusive Brethren and the timeline it would present from the late 1820s in Dublin to the present day. There would be plenty of material for such an exhibition - books, letters, pamphlets, portraits, photographs, reminiscences, tape recordings and printed material like that at the head of this thread. As in the Germany exhibition, the good and the very bad would be displayed.

    If I were the curator of an Exclusive Brethren exhibition, I would place near the start Mrs Fagan's recollection of seeing the Rev'd J N Darby in his clerical gown dashing from a service in a church to make it to the meeting of the Christians who would later become known as the Brethren.

    When I consider the PBCC's current focus on business activities, I like to remember that at the start of the movement the 'Brethren' were ecumenical in approach (a radical concept in those days), that for a short time in Plymouth they worked among the poor and disadvantaged and that before 1848 their membership included university-educated scholarly men, quite a number of whom knew Greek well enough to contemplate a joint new translation of the New Testament.

    Not long ago someone commented that the PBCC is now "a business masquerading as a church". In an exhibition about the Exclusive Brethren the end of the timeline would contrast unfavourably with how the movement conducted itself in its earliest days and I deeply regret that.

  5. An interesting observation, Joan. I now live within 30 yards of a Brethren meeting hall, a congregation made up mainly of people who left the Taylor brethren in 1970. Despite my obvious initial reservations about them, in practice I find them to be very smartly dressed, quiet, friendly, helpful people, always willing to stop for a chat about anything and everything. They have gone out of their way to welcome us into the village and have never once attempted to push their opinions or beliefs onto us, despite the fact they probably realise that we are not church-goers ourselves.

    They recently had a 'special' weekend of meetings and there wasn't any sign of security people, marquees, private jets, expensive cars or unruly children. It is quite clear to me, with my memories of pre-1970 fellowship, that EB general behaviour and demeanour deteriorated along with their allegiance and blind belief in their morally corrupt leader, Jim Taylor Junior.

  6. That maybe so Anon 18th Oct 10:22

    But the ones you are talking about still -

    Maintain strict separation from all other Christians and Churches and will not allow fellowship, worship, or communion with any others. They still withdraw from persons if they leave to go to another Church and still create divisions in families and the Body of Christ. They are not allowed to marry outside the group. They may appear nice to people on the outside, but that’s all part of the deception, if you’re a member and try to leave, all hell breaks loose.

    He’s some ministry in the last few years from the main group who left in 1970,

    RG-y I think that is helpful. That is one of the reasons that I suggested Acts 19. The thought may arise with some ‘why all this separation’; ‘why can we not be more broad in our outlook’; ‘and make way for true lovers of the Lord’ ?. But what you have said is right; there was something here that was valuable, that is, the way, and persons spoke injuriously about it. ‘you are far too narrow’, ‘you are bigoted’. Well, what do you do ?. Do you stop loving these people ?. Of course not. We must, however, keep separate, because otherwise the purity of what has been entrusted to us will become contaminated. Would you agree ?
    NJH Yes

    JAB. I heard of a dear sister who very recently told someone that she has gone off to an evangelical company, and said that the Lord was leading her there. Now there is someone who thinks that she has the Lord’s mind about a matter. I am thinking of what you are bringing before us as to the Lord’s mind and how we arrive at it, but sometimes when I hear someone saying, I have go the Lord’s mind about this, I just know instinctively that they do not. What would you say about that ?
    NJH. Moses did not take anyone with him back into the camp. Joshua remained out at the tent of meeting and the Lord would not lead anybody back into the camp. He has His own rights, the Lord addresses the assemblies in Revelation 2 and 3; we have to leave that. But Joshua remained , and those that sought Jehovah went out to the tent of meeting. So that is how I would answer that.

    I just had an impression about the need for change, a change for what is better. Some people are changing for the world. That is a sad state of affairs. You hear of young people who were once in fellowship and they have changed their course. They changed their outlook. They have taken their eyes off the Lord and they are walking away. They are walking away from what is good. They have changed. They have made a bad change…

    Quite a lot of the JT Junior stuff is still maintained too, such as - only persons in fellowship at weddings, associations ministry, out relatives not allowed to take part in funerals, some still follow the no eating ministry, use JT Juniors edition of the Hymn book with his hymn in it, and much else

    The façade is only a thin veneer

    1. Yes I agree Anon 12.33, you may have missed the fact I was talking about general behaviour and demeanour rather than doctrine and beliefs. After 32 years of EB-ism I do know the ropes.

    2. I have twice been invited to non-Taylorite Exclusive Brethren weddings since the 1970 schism, and been treated like a brother both times. The principle of separation from non-members is still maintained in many respects, and some of the influence of Jim Taylor still hangs around like a bad smell, but it seems to be fading slowly. They never quote any of his ministry or mention his shameful history.

      The groups that rejected Jim Taylor’s leadership in 1970 possibly serve as a convenient staging post for Hales escapees on their way towards a form of Christianity more compatible with New Testament teachings.

    3. Thanks for the clarification Anon 13:43 for a moment there I thought you were a supporter. The vast majority of those who left at or around the divison in 1970 over JT Junior's behaviour at Aberdeen still follow strict Exclusive Brethren rules and dogma, so are still Exclusive Brethren, just not quite as nutty, damaging and abusive as the Hales lot are.

  7. When an Anonymous talks to an Anonymous I find it very confusing - which Anonymous is speaking and to which Anonymous - would it not be possible for you both to give yourselves some kind of name so that the listeners do at least know that you are not talking to yourself? Just sayin'!

    Not Anonymous!

  8. Oh no ......The scraggy old Granny is back
    Just sayin

    1. Anon 23 October 00:37

      Do you really honestly think that kind of personal attack of such a petty childish petulant nature is suited to being Christian ?

      I say Christian in a tenuous way, because the PBCC EB claim to be Christian even though its obvious from what they practice and believe that they are not Christian in the Biblical sense of the word. Hence your attitude Anon 23 October 00:37

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