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Tuesday, 19 August 2014

Symington on suicides (from Wikipeebia)

http://wikipeebia.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=580

Occasionally Symington would comment on the suicides that occurred during his reign, but he never seemed to consider the possibility that the brutality of his practices might have been a contributory cause. His prime concern seemed to be to deflect blame away from the Brethren. He used very angry words about journalists or anyone else that drew attention to the way the victim had been treated. The message was to blame the victim or blame the devil, but don’t blame the Brethren or Symington or his ministry. 

Here are some examples of his comments.

Ministry of J. H. Symington Vol. 48 pages 275-277 (Palmerston North, 23 November 1977)
Quote:
Some of the most drastic things are happening, and the devil’s capitalising on it to make out that the brethren are murderers. If somebody commits suicide, that’s his own matter. He’ll have to stand—if it’s at the judgment-seat, he’ll have to stand in relation to it. You can’t take the thing into your own hands and finish it; nobody can. Not and be right. Then for some stupid ignorant reporter to tell a bunch of carefully prepared lies to blame it on the testimony. It’s the devil.
[. . .]
It’s like a scourge this public thing. The devil, it’s the devil’s agents. For what purpose? To humble us. Somebody said it’s the same as what happened when Mr. Jim was here years ago, which means it hasn’t changed.
[. . .]
You can’t expect anything from the devil or his agents. And the humbling thing is that they once broke bread. I’ve been told that there are probably a thousand persons who once broke bread. And what are they doing now? They’re serving the devil just as hard as they can, any hour of the day or night. It’s about as wicked as anything you can think of.

Ministry of J. H. Symington Vol. 77 pages 138-139 (Redbridge, 26 April 1980)
Quote:
O.K.P. Was this man nearly plunged into hell? Is it that critical?
J.H.S. Yes it is. I don’t think it's too strong to say that. If he took his life, it’s suicide. What can you say about suicide? We've had to face these things. Over our way a sister took her life. She did it simply. She just took enough of certain pills to do the job, and it did it, see. And her husband said about her, At last I can say, safe in the arms of Jesus. But a local brother said to him, How can you say that? He says, you can’t say that, you don’t know where she is. That’s how serious it is.

Ministry of J. H. Symington Vol. 85 page 257 (Hamilton, 30 November 1980)
Quote:
Suicide could not possibly be the answer. That’s taking things into your own hands. It’s been done, you know. And it’s been blown up far beyond reason. Others blamed for it. If you take your own life, you’re to blame yourself. Nobody else is.

Ministry of J. H. Symington Vol. 86 pages 6-7 (Neche, 7 December 1980)
Quote:
It’s been a very sad matter the suicides that have taken place among the brethren. That’s not the answer to anything. And the capital that the devil has tried to make of it is terrible.

Ministry of J. H. Symington Vol. 95 pages 134-135 (Minneapolis, 26 August 1981)
Quote:
A very serious tragedy has happened in England. I don’t think it’s wrong to just mention it. A young woman, a sister, who had a serious history of adultery, committed suicide. I think the devil urged her to do that to counter the Lord’s demand for a review and an adjustment of defective assembly administration.


32 comments:

  1. What does he actually mean by "...the Lord’s demand for a review and an adjustment of defective assembly administration." I don't understand/

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  2. I was wondering that too. And what did he mean - was he saying that the local assembly did some thing wrong? And this woman who allegedly had a serious history of adultery, what would Jesus have said to her? Didn't he tell a woman caught in adultery that he did not judge her?

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    1. Two sugars in mine please

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  3. I suppose any woman in this circumstance would be accused of adultery and, if a male, 'accused' of being a homosexual. What an animal that disgraceful excuse for a man is!

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    1. I would prefer coffee if you don't mind

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    2. Get a life Mate

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    3. "A life mate".... Do you mean a partner, husband or wife? Or are you a comma short of anything intelligible to say?

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    4. Apologies to 21 Aug. 10.47. Makes more sense now the correct order is revealed; punctuated, or not!

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  4. I believe that when the EB were in periods of "partying", assisted by the newly discovered "liberties" of alcohol, adultery was not uncommon in certain sections of the cult; it was, of course, eventually swept under the carpet. The poor woman, referred to above, was not so lucky. I can only assume that Symington, is blasphemously suggesting, that he was mediating for the Lord concerning the harsh treatment of this woman at the hands of the EB, possibly to avoid negative publicity and, looking on the bright side, because even he had a few remaining scruples. However, despite this intervention, the woman took her own life, having been assisted by the devil; this thwarted his control of events and cast negative publicity upon the Brethren.

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    1. I believe that when the EB were in periods of "partying", assisted by the newly discovered "liberties" of alcohol, adultery was not uncommon in certain sections of the cult'

      And it's not so different now.

      What the PBCC fail to grasp is that they have a similar cross section of interests as the rest of society, some good, some bad, some ugly. If they could only accept that and quit trying to put on the Holy Joe act they'd appear much more mainstream and acceptable.

      Look how JHS and the EB revered Magahy.

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  5. I wasn't in long enough to enjoy this butcher's reign. No wonder even the Hales faction wants to write him out of history!

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  6. A pair of sprouting horns would complete the photo!

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  7. I would suggest that he is saying that the brethren should have been tougher earlier. Incidentally Jill, I wonder if Symington's statement causes the son of the lady in question any distress. You might care to ask your accuser.

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  8. Just wondering what's for tea?

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    1. Dear Troll, I fear you won't feel hungry when you learn what's heading your dear leader's way re his advocacy of and joking about , suicide.

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  9. I knew the lady to whom he referred. The 'indiscretion' had been confessed to (by her) and dealt with by the church many years before. They then decided to punish her again and, quite rightly, she said that it was dealt with before God many years previously and she had been biblically assured that this meant she never needed to think about it again (as far as the east is from the west...), and to re-repent was belittling of God's promise. This was seen by the priests as lack of repentance and so wouldn't let her back into fellowship. It was that impasse that killled her.

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  10. I think he might mean that the brethren should have been tougher earlier.

    Jill - perhaps you should remind a correspondent of yours of the reference above

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  11. Yes Questionner I was thinking about that very thing!

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  12. The sister was probably the subject of the notorious "seven day matters" when Symington embarked on a ruthless campaign of systematic withdrawal from any brethren who did not have their extra-marital affairs "settled in the assembly", even if such dalliances occurred decades previously before such persons were received into the fellowship. He quoted some obscure edict from the Mosaic law to justify his actions, and hundreds of persons who were settled in their own knowledge of divine forgiveness were summarily dealt with. Many never recovered from having their history revisited and exposed publicly. It was commonly held amongst the brethren that anybody who had committed an immoral act which justified the exercise of the "1 Corinthians 5" judgement, had a "defect" and as such was not qualified to engage in public duties.

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  13. I am minded that the diabolical Symington had similar characteristics as Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot or any other "reforming" zealot from recent history.

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    1. I don't think Mr Symington ever picked up the sword/gun/weapon of mass destruction as such.
      But 'the words of the reckless pierce like swords' (Proverbs)

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  14. Reading JHS's various comments about members of his flock committing suicide, my one thought is: COMPASSION. Did he have NONE? Ghastly, egotistical, dishonest man.

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  15. Compassion is a quality that the CC consider to be missing from the characteristics of the Exclusive Brethren (PBCC Ltd) This is most unattractive when one considers that the group consider themselves to be a "mainstream church". By all accounts, this is a blasphemous assertion.

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  16. Does anyone have any details as to the Parsons suicide in the Barnet area of London in the 1980's. I note that it is not listed in wikipeebia. It has been alleged that the PBCC found a note at the scene and destroyed it before the police arrived. By doing this an open verdict is possible by the coroner, rather than suicide and the PBCC 'position' would be protected from negative media coverage.

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    Replies
    1. I think it was John Ashby Parsons in 1975.

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  17. Sudden thought: if it was the assembly administration that was defective in A's case, then why was it she who suffered the backlash, and not the assembly administrators?

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  18. Pass me a spring roll and the salt. So the price of eggs, does anyone know?

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    1. Hmmm , good to see the HEB trolls back : ) , it shows BDH is worried , and with good reason !!!

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    2. Anonymous 25 August 2014 11:58

      Never mind the price of eggs, what is the price of a family broken up by the EB?

      Honestly tell me what you would want if your family were broken by the EB and without any Scriptural reason?

      Luke

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  19. if your understanding of scripture leads you in any way to hurt someone your reading is faulty.

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    1. . . . and if you decide to hurt someone in order to further your selfish ends, you can always find some scripture that can be misinterpreted in support of your decision. Brethren ministry is full of glaring examples. So beware of Brethren quoting scripture, and despair of Brethren quoting ministry. In Brethren hands they can be equally misleading, and often are.

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    2. 1 Thes 5 v15 and this is PAUL speaking
      'See that no one render to any evil for evil, but pursue always what is
      good towards one another and towards all'

      So not matter how imperfect they allege someone to be, the Exclusives have no excuse to treat people badly
      Further evidence the Exclusives manipulate scripture

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