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Tuesday, 10 June 2014

WINNIPEG FREE PRESS – PLYMOUTH BRETHREN RESPONSE

http://www.plymouthbrethrenchristianchurch.org/winnipeg-free-press-plymouth-brethren-response/

Saturday, 10th May 2014

REBUTTAL OF FALSE ALLEGATIONS MADE AGAINST BRETHREN

IN WINNIPEG FREE PRESS – CLOSED DOOR CHURCH ARTICLE

May 10, 2014

ALLEGATIONRESPONSE
1.The Plymouth Brethren discourage
interaction between their followers and outsiders.
The Brethren do not discourage interaction within the
mainstream of society. Our whole disposition & attitude encourages interaction except when it comes to church fellowship and any matter of social relationship that affects our conscience before God.
2.The Brethren forbid computers with
anything other than email functions.
The computers utilized by the Brethren are no different from any commercially available computers. Internet filters are used for protection from pornographic and other corrupt images and content. A large percentage of the general population would have similar filters in their homes and businesses. Parental control is practised.
3.Brethren women are required to wear ankle-length skirts.Brethren women (sisters) wear skirts or dresses, the length of which is a matter of personal choice.
4.Plymouth Brethren Christian Church
businesses are successful in business because they can receive interest-free loans through Brethren.
The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church has no
connections or affiliations whatsoever, of any kind, or at any point, with the financing of Brethren’s businesses and the financing is arranged by the business owner at their sole discretion, through whatever financial channels are available.
5.PBCC doctrine stipulates that companies stay small.Brethren’s businesses seek to manage their businesses within their financial constraints and with what is available to them by way of resources of personnel, etc., but there is no stipulation, as alleged, to ‘stay small’.
6.A number of businesses were mentioned in the article as being owned by the brethren.6 businesses named in the article have no ownership or affiliation with any of the Brethren at the date or time of your publication: Insign Architectural, Signage, Chemwest Supply, Instafoil Specialties, Paragon Securities, Superb Sprinkler Service, and North American Rail Products Inc.
7.Exclusive Brethren ‘DON’TSThe Brethren do not have a set of rules or a creed to follow. We simply endeavor to live our lives in accordance with the Holy Scriptures, and the meaningful and intelligent interpretation of the scriptures, as set out by the Lord Jesus Christ, the apostles and Paul, and what has been established as righteous and holy principles, since the establishment of the Plymouth Brethren Recovery in 1827.
8.Don’t be employed by non-brethren.Many Brethren are employed by non-Brethren companies.
9.Don’t rent space or anything to non-brethren.Another false allegation. In fact, many Brethren operate Equipment Rental companies.
10.Don’t go to non-EB schools.Brethren have their own government accredited schools for older grades. Younger children attend public schools in their community.
11.Don’t stay in a hotel or motel.Brethren stay in hotels or motels as required but the
generous hospitality of the Brethren reduces the necessity to stay in such accommodations.
12.Don’t visit the graves of deceased often.Brethren conscientiously visit the graves of their loved ones.
13.Air tickets must be purchased through a Brethren business.Most air tickets are purchased on-line directly from air carriers, or through travel agents.
14.Their churches, called meeting rooms, don’t have windows.Many Brethren churches do have windows.
15.Certified teachers are not allowed to even utter the word university, or encourage students in any way to attend post-secondary schools.Many Brethren undertake Post-Secondary Education by correspondence after they graduate from high school. Students are encouraged to continue formal study after they complete secondary schooling.
16.Women’s only role in church is to hand out hymn sheets.The role of Brethren women in the church is very important, including direct involvement in the Lord’s Supper and selection and announcing each Hymn, at each & every meeting of the congregation, on a daily basis, freely selected and given out from our Little Flock Hymn book by the women (sisters).
17.A former Brethren member tells of seeing Symington so drunk one time, two men had to help him walk into church.This allegation is a total lie and there is no evidence whatsoever to substantiate this.
18.Mr. Taylor was caught in bed with a married woman half his age in Aberdeen, Scotland.This is a false allegation that originated at a time when a Brother & and his wife were providing much needed care for Mr. Taylor when he wasn’t well, and very very weak physically, 3 months before he was taken from this earthly scene by our Lord Jesus Christ on October 14, 1970.
19.Mr. Hales owns a private jet.Mr. Hales does not own a private jet or a share thereof.
20.When you leave the Brethren — or are kicked out — you’re dead to them.Another inaccurate allegation. Brethren are diligent in ensuring that suitable care and compassion is extended to persons who have left the church.
21.You have to be born into the church.Many current members of the Brethren were not born into the church and made their own decision to join the Brethren.
22.The Brethren have a network across the globe for matching up young men and women.A completely false allegation. Young Brethren are free to choose their own spouses.
23.The UK charity commission could find no public good that the PBCC performed to obtain its charity tax exemption.A completely false allegation. Please visit the church
website to review some of the documented activities of the Plymouth Brethren clearly displaying public benefit.
www.plymouthbrethrenchristianchurch.org

© Copyright Plymouth Brethren (Exclusive Brethren) Christian Church 2014
Download The PDF Here

22 comments:

  1. Of course there is nowhere on their website to post a rebuttal of their response. They seem to portray a sense of being all powerful, they cannot be brought down or even faulted. Come on PBCC admit your faults - you would be more credible if you did. Eye witness accounts are acceptable in a court of law you know. I think we need to start posting our responses to this - perhaps someone could set up a separate blog for this?

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  2. The Questioner10 June 2014 at 08:25

    Where was this first posted? I would not find it difficult to contradict almost every one of these items, with evidence.

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  3. Diligent in ensuring care and compassion to those who have left the brethren - of all their lies this is probably one of the most hurtful.

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  4. In the House of Commons in the Westminster Parliament yesterday afternoon Theresa May MP, Home Secretary, and Michael Gove MP, Secretary of State for Education, spoke out strongly against extremist religious groups whose ideologies mean that in state schools they practise separation and segregation, encourage isolationism, don't engage in community and interfaith activities, maintain that their children don't accept evolution and so on and so on.

    Brethren schools are not in the state sector. They are private schools, but I imagine that the Focus Learning Trust will be setting up meetings urgently to address the implications of the British government's clearly expressed concerns about separatist organisations and their influence on children and young people.

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    1. Its about time governments woke up to the problems being caused by some of these hard line religious beliefs.The Trojan horse scandal should also hopefully help move governments to learn to wise up a little more quickly to it too.Seems that nothing helps move these Christian countries more quickly toward reform, than to have experienced their own share of fear, that perhaps even some members of their own flesh and blood could also possibly be caused harm.So much for the idea of caring about others,and scripture like Luke 10:25-37. History seems to show, that obviously most Christians will still care mostly, only about what directly happens to concern themselves and their own

      The idea of freedom of religion lays at the root of these issues.An idea that was always going to be most impossible to uphold.Other than to need to exist for a number of generations within the foolish belief that it could ever possibly be upheld.A belief that has also caused many to need to suffer so long

      A new age is dawning.It wont help change life for many of us.But it will help change lives in future

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  5. '. Brethren are diligent in ensuring that suitable care and compassion is extended to persons who have left the church.'

    Oh really? My wife suffers with epilepsy, a condition that the PBCC found so unacceptable when we were 'in' that an elderly man with the condition was confined to a 'colony' out in the countryside near Chalfont St Peter. Since we left the recently renamed PBCC in 1989, my wife's mother has not had any contact with my wife at all, even though she has already lost a son with the same condition. The lies in this rebuttal are staggering.

    The woman in bed with James Taylor has already told a court under oath, that she was naked in bed with him. Does that sound like caring for a sick man to you?????

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  6. The Questioner10 June 2014 at 15:11

    It is rare to see such a catalogue of half truths and untruths in one place. It is possibly unique to find them presented by a so-called Christian Church.

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  7. .........and a 'Mainstream' Christian Church too, which is what they claim they are. When my PBCC sister, Anne Bedford contacts me for the first time since 1989, I may begin to believe that the Charity Commission's directives are being taken on board. After all, as an ex-member I should not be treated any differently than any other member of the public, but then maybe the PBCC also loosen vehicle wheel nuts on cars belonging to the general public?

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  8. So it's MISTER Hales, MISTER Taylor, but Symington! Nice little slur on a leader the PBCC apparently now wish they'd never had. He was an obnoxious character in many ways, but he saw through the Hales family like they were transparent and for that he gets a little bit of my respect. So is the PBCC just family politics? I'm not seeing much glory for God from where I'm sitting.

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  9. Officer Dibble10 June 2014 at 22:06

    "Brethren are diligent in ensuring that suitable care and compassion is extended to persons who have left the church."
    This is SUCH a lie. It leaves me furiously angry on behalf of three generations of my extended family. Nine years ago I had a conversation with an HEB member of the family, beseeching her to make contact with her "wrongly put out of fellowship" sister, who was in need of a compassionate listening ear at the time. Her response was, "Oh, I wouldn't know what to say." I again encouraged her to telephone her sister, even just to say hello. She didn't make the call..

    Things have got more difficult for the extended exEB family since then and the peebs are aware of this because we've told them. No PBCC outreach has been made to them whatsoever, since 2005. Diligent? DILIGENT?! And this is a family who were ripped to bits, mother leaving home to go back to the EB at the behest of the 'priests', without even saying goodbye... yet the out family were told two decades later in the 'review' that they had been wrongly excommunicated, it was all a great big ghastly mistake.

    The dishonesty in point 20 of that rebuttal leaves me speechless. And angry and hurt on behalf of my family, myself, and thousands of other exEB and nonEB whom PBCC members treat as if they might as well be spiritually and socially dead. I hate liars - am finding it very hard to get over the repeated manifestation of this particular one by the Brethren. My family deserve sooo much better.

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  10. Good work, Leo!

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  11. It really would be very useful for us to add a third column to this table in which we provide evidence to demonstrate that the journalist had it right. I would be happy to collate such evidence if people want to send it to me? Use the email address jill044 @ gmail.com (remove spaces). I would then want to post this new table perhaps on this blog and on wikipeebia. Evidence needs to be 'hard' as in not hearsay, or third party tales but personal stories, documentation (e.g. of Madeleine Kerr's statement under oath), What do people think? Unlike the original article where there is opportunity to comment, on the PBCC website there is no such opportunity.

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    1. The third column of your table would need to be a broad one, because there is a LOT of evidence. Some of the statements made by the journalist could be supported by many pages of evidence comprising statements of many eyewitnesses and quotations from many pages of ministry. For instance, you could write a whole essay setting out the evidence of Jim Taylor’s promiscuous behaviour and a whole book about the Brethren discouraging interaction with outsiders.

      The journalist made some honest mistakes, but the rebuttal is not as honest as he was.

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    2. I agree Ian but we do not necessarily have to provide all the evidence. I think it is worth a go at least? We can always set it out differently!

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    3. Alan Ker's testimony which is to be found in the legal cases section of the library on this site contradicts the EB rebuttal to Allegation 18.

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  12. The Questioner11 June 2014 at 07:54

    Will do Jill

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  13. This is just another "own goal" on the part of the EB (PBCC Ltd). I doubt whether their website is very widely viewed by the public. Furthermore, they have now amplified the original report, this would have passed unnoticed by many; also, most impartial people give this sort of thing the "no smoke without fire" assessment. Finally, why don't the knee jerk, litigious PBCC Ltd fire off the usual wallpaper of threatening lawyers' letters? All these rebuttals are at best half truths or, at worse, lies. Except, possibly, the matter of the skirts (for the sisters, that is) since EB fashion statements appear to be more changeable than seasonal fashion shows. Haute couture designer, Mr Hales, did ask for an extra four inches, recently. The problem for reporters is that no sooner have they collated some facts, than the quicksilver "belief" system of the ever opportunistic PBCC Ltd goes off on another tack. Reporters, and other investigators, would find it easier to nail jelly to the wall.

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  14. So it's MISTER Taylor, MISTER Hales, but Symington. Knowing the way their minds work, I would take that to be a veiled slur by the PBCC on a grotesque man who, despite his many failings, seemed to have a judgement of the Hales clan and dealt with them accordingly.

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  15. The Questioner11 June 2014 at 10:17

    Top of the dishonesty is the attempt to disprove CC criticism by reference to their own website and self-praise, rather than linking to the CC report. To look there you will find negative comments in abundance. But of course they hope you don't go there. When I look at the PBCC website or any of their pronouncements I ask, ''What is today's lie?''

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  16. The author of this article in the Winnipeg Free Press by his own admission only wanted to do a human interest story - a large number of British emigrants moving into a small town, building a church and starting a number of businesses. All the PBCC had to do was show the reporter around one of their businesses, a quick tour of the church and school and the guy would have been happy and the PBCC would have got a lot of positive PR. Instead they give the guy the cold shoulder and his radar goes off - and this was the result! Then they are obligated to post a rebuttal containing a multitude of outright lies and half truths. What an embarrassing and sordid spectacle!

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  17. Their perpetual stream of lies is absolutely disgusting, and a disgrace to society. And the Focus Schools continue to insist on pupils lying to get out of situations, as long as they dont get found out.....it is ok to lie. Well I dont think that would be the case in other schools. I work for these people, and they are living one big lie....

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    1. Are you able to give some idea of what these situations are, in which Focus pupils are encouraged to lie? Not wanting you to dob yourself in, but can you give us some sort of an example? I'm just struggling to understand what the kids would have to lie about, in their own insular schools... Thanks.

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