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Tuesday, 4 February 2014

BDH says categorically that you can't be saved if you leave 'the position'

There are however reports filtering through of rival UK ministry stating that it's important not to say this!

The new revised UK stance is as follows; 'we are to be very, very careful not to say that others are not saved anymore'.

30 comments:

  1. Laurie,
    I think you have quoted something BDH has said, entirely out of context because it suits your ends - Nothing better to do?
    One has to look at why he said something and pay attention especially to the context. You are no longer in brethren circles and don't have a clue do you?
    I'm also no longer in the fellowship, but at least I don't pretend or deliberately distort the words or meaning of what a person has said.

    If you would just reflect for a moment on how you have acted and treated other people, it would leave you with nothing more to say.
    Now be a good egg and clean-up the mess you have made.
    We are all responsible as individuals before God and cannot blame the PBCC or sit in judgement on them. Your whole attitude quite frankly reeks of me me me.
    It's how it affects you isn't it. Why are you so bent on spreading such disinformation is beyond me.

    Judge yourself and maybe you will start seeing the PBCC in a fresh light.

    Watalota Tosh

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    Replies
    1. Watalota Tosh,

      I’ve been thinking about your comment and looking at some of your other posts elsewhere on this blog, where you declared this –

      “I too have faith, but it is a real faith founded on the sure foundation of Jesus Christ”

      “I believe in the living God who created the habitable Earth”

      “I believe the Holy bible to be the 100 % Truth and every word contained in it to be the inspired word of God…”

      These comments by Watalota Tosh can be read in the blog post about archaeology, which was started on Thursday 30th Jan 2014. Reflecting on the above quotes and now looking at your post above made on 5 February 2014 05:30 I highlight these points –

      1. You claim not to be a PBCC/Exclusive Brethren member, but claim to be a Christian following the Bible (the Word of God), therefore what are your thoughts on the PBCC/Exclusive Brethren practice of twisting, distorting, misrepresenting and ignoring the Word of God, resulting in refusing to fellowship, worship, have communion with, or eat with, any other Christian or any other Christian Church, i.e. the rest of the Body of Christ ? As you declare yourself a Christian following the Word of God, can you not see that this cutting off/separation from the rest of the Body of Christ and all the millions & millions of other Christians accepted by Him, is completely contrary to what the Word of God teaches ?

      2. If you’re not a member of the PBCC/Exclusive Brethren (as you have claimed you are not), this means you are not attending meetings (Bible Readings, Communion, Fellowship Meetings, 3 Day Meetings), you’re not actually hearing what the leader Bruce Hales is saying or any other brethren leaders, nor are you getting the ‘benefit’ of the printed transcribed ministry (White Books etc). Therefore its impossible for you to claim something is “out of context” or imply you have some special insight into what has been said !.

      3. Your comment - “I don't pretend or deliberately distort the words or meaning of what a person has said.” – Neither has Laurie. I also have a copy of the so called Christian ministry posted into this blog. The words in the ministry are the spoken words of Bruce Hales, they are what he said and they have been put into print by the Bible and Gospel Trust, if they were out of context why didn’t the BGT edit them before printing ?

      4. Your comment – “Why are you so bent on spreading such disinformation is beyond me.” – No my friend, there is no disinformation. The ministry extracts are from the transcribed words spoken in the meeting rooms of the Exclusive Brethren/PBCC and published by the Bible and Gospel Trust.

      5. Your comment - “Judge yourself and maybe you will start seeing the PBCC in a fresh light” – You must have seen the PBCC/Exclusive Brethren in a fresh light as you say you are not a member !, why are you not a member ?, why were you withdrawn from ?, did you lose your family ? Why don’t you cut yourself off/separate from the rest of the Christian church & all other Christians & family & friends & support doctrines not authorised by the Word of God and join the PBCC / Exclusive Brethren, what’s stopping you ?

      6. How does it feel to have your Salvation in Christ questioned, by the PBCC/Exclusive Brethren and Bruce Hales ? How does it feel to be treated as a "worldlie" and not fit to have christian fellowship with ? How does it feel that the PBCC/Exclusive Brethren (who claim to be Christian) refuse to eat or drink or have Christian fellowship with you, when you also claim to be Christian ? (this is how PBCC/Exclusive Brethren consider those not "in fellowship")

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  2. Watalota Tosh - I agree that context is important. Perhaps you could supply it for what Mr Hales said in Sydney in February 2002 (the first extract above)?

    On 19 September last year I wrote a letter to Fiona and Garth Christie, and two senior 'brothers' whom Garth had directed to reply to my concerns, in which I drew their attention to what Bruce D Hales has said over the years about what his father (John Hales) called the 'oblivion' into which brethren pass when they take 'high ground' and leave the fellowship.

    The last two paragraphs of my careful and courteous letter contained this:

    "It seems that whether you're in or leaving your fellowship, you have to behave according to Mr Hales's teaching that you can have no link with true believers "in the world" and that it's "folly" to think so. It's the spirit of apostasy, because the position you're in has been divinely established. Any contradiction of that teaching consigns you to oblivion.

    Do you realise that if the initials in front of that ministry were J.P.W., and not B.D.H., there'd be a public and media outcry? Sadly, this teaching stigmatises people who don't belong to your group, whether they're Christian believers or not."

    I haven't yet received an acknowledgement or a reply to this important letter. (I'm not sure whether not acknowledging or replying to letters would be viewed by William Shawcross as 'misbehaviour' - see his comment in the Westminster Parliament yesterday.)

    JPW to whom I referred is Justin Welby, Archbishop of Canterbury.

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    Replies
    1. Hello Joan,
      It is my belief the context BDH intended, was for those who have been or are in fellowship. His ministry is generally not aimed or applied to persons who have never known the assembly position.

      Laurie and Co know full well what I'm getting at here, even if you don't,
      In fact you aren't expected to know or understand the context unless you have been a member. Even if you have known them for years, it makes no difference as to where God has set you Joan. Be assured of the love of the brethren for you and know these amazing people are not against you or anyone else. What they will not have, is people being obnoxious and untruthful.

      Some people leave the brethren because they think the grass is greener, but it can quickly go wrong and then they start blaming other for their downfall or lack of contentment.
      This is exactly what drives many of the comments here.
      I would say to them - make peace with God and then you will have justice through the work of Christ. I think the brethren have no quarrel with these former members, but they refuse to surrender their self will to a just and loving God. We are all responsible in the measure God has given us, whether in or out of fellowship.
      In all kindness, I would say be prepared to change your mindset Joan and don't be led astray be these obnoxious people trying to dig dirt on the PBCC. Be on the winning side not with losers.
      Some good comments Joan, but I would urge you not to be conned by these contentious and selfish people. They had better get a life pronto

      Watalota Tosh

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    2. A very quick reply, Watalota Tosh.

      You may not know that I knew the Taylor Snr Exclusive Brethren in the 1940s and 1950s, before the rule of James Taylor Jnr. The people I knew from this group then were well-mannered, kind, university educated and in one case scholarly. They didn't practise separation from non Exclusive Brethren people and they lived by the normal English courtesies of eating and drinking with others.

      Between 1986 and 2010, we had a Symington/Hales Exclusive Brethren family living outside our kitchen window. They insisted on separation. On a cold January day in 2010 when I suggested to the woman of the house that she and I might study Galatians together she closed her front door in my face. I was left standing in the snow. An acquaintance from down the road saw this happening and called on me to check that I was OK.

      In the 1940s and 1950s Brethren would have been equipped with the social skills to accept or deny graciously an invitation to study the Bible together.

      As you can see, from long experience I can make up my own mind about these Brethren and I'm never going to be conned by anyone.

      Delete
    3. Watalota Tosh,

      Part 1

      Do you realise your tying yourself in knots & contradicting yourself trying to defend the indefensible. When your comments are scrutinised they fall apart like a straw man, nor are they based on truth from the Word of God in the Bible

      The title to the blog post at the top by Laurie is – “BDH says categorically that you can't be saved if you leave 'the position'”

      You then made these claims to Laurie - “I think you have quoted something BDH has said, entirely out of context” and “I don't pretend or deliberately distort the words or meaning” and “bent on spreading such disinformation”

      You now say – “It is my belief the context BDH intended, was for those who have been or are in fellowship. His ministry is generally not aimed or applied to persons who have never known the assembly position”

      Watalota Tosh,
      Your latest comment as quoted above, is confirmation of what Laurie said in the blog title !, You now agree with Laurie !

      The Bruce Hales ministry is indeed intended for those in fellowship, or those thinking about leaving the fellowship, or those who have left the position of the Exclusive Brethren. It is clearly intended as a scaremongering, fear mongering, completely baseless warning, which has no foundation in Gods Word in the Bible, that if persons leave the Brethren they cant be Christian !

      Persons can only be called Christians if they believe in the saving work of the shed blood of Christ, having put their faith and trust in Him and His finished work (John 3v16). Therefore, Bruce Hales is indeed questioning if persons are saved if they leave the PBCC/Exclusive Brethren, as he says they cant be Christian !.

      Bruce Hales so called Christian ministry is utterly condemned by Scripture, as Gods Word says only He knows those who are His, 2 Tim 2 and John 10 “27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one.”

      Yet Bruce Hales says -

      “And if you leave the fellowship you don't have Christianity. I want every young person to understand that here: you give up the fellowship, don't think you can hold on to Christianity. You haven't got it. Young people that give up the fellowship, and turn their back on the fellowship, and leave what they've been brought up in, and leave the position they've been set in, they can't claim Christianity, they can't do it.”

      When put under the scrutiny of Scripture and reality, Bruce Hales ministry is proven to be total bunkum and balderdash

      Outside of the PBCC/Exclusive Brethren there are millions of Christians who have the light and true meaning of Assembly, Gods Church, The Bride of Christ, Pauline Ministry and walk in the light as He is in the light (1 John 1).

      The ministry from Bruce Hales and your comments highlight an ignorance that prevails amongst PBCC/Exclusive Brethren of the rest of the Body of Christ, (all other Christians), outside the tiny aberrrant closed sectarian group. This is the result of the PBCC/EB, having had over 160 years separated and cut off from all other Christians

      Delete
    4. Part 2

      Watalota Tosh,

      Your comment - “His ministry is generally not aimed or applied to persons who have never known the assembly position”

      What do you and the PBCC/EB mean by “assembly”/“assembly position”?, Here are some thoughts to ponder -

      - Does it include all Christians ? If so PBCC/EB shouldn’t separate from all other Christians/Churches should they ?

      - Does it just describe/apply to the PBCC/EB ? Are PBCC/EB ‘the assembly’ ? If so it’s false & a misrepresentation of Bible truth, for no individual group can claim unique ownership of divine truth, nor claim to be “The Body”, especially as this definition cuts out the rest of the Body of Christ !

      - Are PBCC/EB just part of the ‘assembly’ ? If so, why separate from the rest of it ?, after all, EB teach the assembly is the Bride of Christ, the Pearl of Great Value !

      - Does ‘the assembly/assembly position’ apply to all Christians but its really that PBCC/EB have been taught other Christians outside the group are somehow inferior as they haven’t the understanding or light of it ? If so, EB teaching is totally false, not found in reality and shockingly denigrating to the saving work of Christ in the millions of Christians that form the Bride of Christ outside the PBCC/EB

      - Does ‘assembly’ apply to individual congregations of the PBCC/EB or the corporate whole, the one whole universal position of PBCC/EBism ?

      In the Bible I think its correct that the word “Assembly” comes from the traditional Greek translation of ekklesia, meaning assembly or congregation. Over time ekklesia has also been used to mean church, although some think that’s not strictly accurate.

      There is debate about application of original Greek, as some words might have multiple translations & different nuances to take into account, alongside grammar & context, so there are pitfalls when trying to interpret everything literally.

      Most places in the NT refer to ekklesia as a local assembly of believers in Jesus Christ, translated "assembly" or "congregation.", an assembly or assembled group of people, called out ones, a group of persons organized & meeting together for a common purpose. Most English Bibles now translate the word ekklesia as church.

      E.g, In the NT a group of believers would be referred to as "the assemblies (plural) (ekklesia) of Asia." (1 Corinthians 16:19) The KJV translates the passage, "the churches of Asia."

      So in its Statement of Faith, a Bible focused local Christian Church can say - “We believe in the Church, the Body of Christ, as comprising all believers worldwide and throughout history. It is expressed visibly in the local assembly of Christians. It is the center of healing and spiritual growth for all believers” (actual SoF extract from a Christian Church)

      Where does all that leave the PBCC/Exclusive Brethren ?

      They falsely apply & define “Assembly” as pertaining uniquely to them in the sense of a corporate universal group assembly. This first arrogation is then enhanced with another, by falsely claiming they (the assembly) have some unique special light / truth / divine support, other Christians don’t have. This is attempted by repeating claims such as “only brethren walk in the light of the assembly”, or “someone that goes out of fellowship and deliberately despises the light of the assembly, they've cut themselves off from the truth, they can't claim to be believers…” or “the head in heaven is not known outside the assembly” or “only the assembly gathers to His name” or “salvation is only found in the assembly” etc

      This absurd house of cards, founded on false claims, having no basis in Gods Word or in reality of the global / local Christian church, is then promoted to the membership of the PBCC/EB as divine truths !, which amongst other falsehoods, are used as a basis for keeping the membership separate from all other Christians, who are viewed as having less light !

      Delete
    5. Rev,
      You failed to mention there is a distinct difference between -
      An Assembly and The Assembly. There is one body of Christ, one assembly, one position and one recovery. It cannot fail.

      Your so called "House of Cards" has stood, is standing and will stand for all eternity. Now have you done with being obnoxious?

      Watalota Tosh

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    6. “There is one body of Christ, one assembly, one position and one recovery.”

      There are two words in that statement that I would question: position and recovery. Most Christians would accept the first part of the sentence in an abstract sense but when you reach the word “position” it sounds as if you mean there is only one actual denomination that truly represents the body of Christ. There are thousands of denominations that think this, and think they are IT. These many claims are all mutually contradictory, so it is pretty obvious that all or nearly all of them must be wrong. It is also pretty obvious to many of us that the Brethren’s claim of unique ecclesiastical rectitude is less plausible than most of the contradictory, competing claims. It smacks of extreme sectarianism, as do the several passages of BDH ministry that are quoted above, along with the dictum of Jim Taylor, frequently repeated, that “We are the Church.”

      The word “recovery” is also deceptive if applied to something like the Hales fellowship. I think the Brethren use the word to imply falsely that their doctrines and practices are a recovery of something that existed in the past. Scripture and history do not support that view. There is no evidence that anything remotely resembling it existed in the past. Taylor/Symington/Hales Brethrenism is a modern invention. Its closest resemblance is to other modern inventions like the Mormons, the Moonies, Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Seventh-Day Adventists, and a few hundred similar organisations.

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    7. Tosh...You have lost the argument and are out of your depth; please retire gracefully and try to desist from referring to well written, intelligent and logical contributions as "obnoxious", or, put in an equal amount of work and offer an argument that stands up to scrutiny. Clearly, you are not able; hence, the thinly veiled abuse and rather aggressive posturing.

      #notapublicbenefit

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    8. 08:39 / Do grow up -
      There is no argument to be had about the brethren and their lives are none of your business, so please stop throwing toys out of your pram.
      Rather this issue has provoked a contentious and obnoxious spirit which exposes your whole agenda.

      See here - You don't like the fact many of us don't share your distorted view of the PBCC. The attitude that I see a lot here on this site, is from people who try to pin blame or dig dirt on others, when it would be better for them to take a long look in the mirror. We all have a responsibility to make sure our own lives are in keeping with Christianity and we are certainly cannot blame the brethren for where we are today.
      I suggest you turn to God and ask him for his direction.

      Watalota Tosh

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    9. As I understand it, when the Exclusive Brethren talk about the 'Recovery' they mean that John Darby and his colleagues in the nineteenth century formed a Christian fellowship which they thought was based on the pattern of the earliest church in C1 AD.

      It seems that people in the Hales Exclusive group don't take account of the many separatist movements down the centuries who also thought that they could retrieve the 'authentic' New Testament model of Christian fellowship. Darby and his colleagues were not unique.

      The New Testament book of Acts shows clearly that from the beginning the Christian mission didn't confine itself to a separated, upper room, Aramaic-speaking clique with an inbred mentality who read the Old Testament Scriptures in Hebrew. Rather, it branched out soon after Pentecost into the world beyond Jerusalem, to Samaria and Antioch on the Orontes, using a different version of the Scriptures (the Septuagint) and a new language (Greek).

      There was engagement, flexibility and diversity from the start, not uniformity and exclusivity.

      Delete

    10. Hello Tosh...there you go again...!

      To take up some of your points, made in your usual uncompromising manner: - If there is abuse of others by the Brethren, and they are in receipt of public funding, then it is in everybody's interest. This issue has exposed contention because a lot of folk have been harmed by the Brethren. I am not sure what my "whole agenda" might be - you seem to have enormous insights. However, my agenda, where you are concerned, is to suggest that ought to be able to respond to decent contributions, from some of the above, without wagging your admonitory finger and a certain amount of bigotry. I haven't noticed any untoward dirt digging here, only honest criticism and some thought provoking responses. People take responsibility for their lives, in their own way, whether it is Muslim, Christian, humanist, or nothing in particular. Who are you to plant your particular moral code upon others? I expect many of us would be very interested to know why you have left the Brethren and what your current denomination (assuming you have one) make of being unsuitable to associate, in any way, with the Hales led Exclusives.

      To say that there is no argument to be had about the Brethren, and to instruct others into their means of direction betrays arrogance. I do believe a little more humility would be in keeping, when you glance in the mirror for your own self assessment.

      #notapublicbenefit

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    11. #notapublicbenefit and Co

      Paul said -
      If anyone think to be contentious, we have no such custom.
      In other words, he took a dim view of schools of opinion, contentious persons and particularly an obnoxious spirit towards the brethren and The Assembly. Do note - I did not say (an assembly)

      The brethren are still here, whether you like it or not. Paul is also still here. The Recovery is still here from JND's time and cannot fail.
      Like or loathe the brethren, you have to respect their faith.
      How does that fit with your current agenda to discredit them or cast slurs? It begs the question - Are you a Christian?

      Agreed, there are some things that I personally don't like and even object to, but sometimes there are people or things in this life which we find unpalatable. How we deal with our problems is very important.
      The brethren are different in the way they live, so it can be difficult to get to grips with. However I find nothing in them worthy of the obnoxious attitude which stalks Laurie's blog site. Richard Stay's site also had the same obnoxious spirit, but we can thank God he had the decency to take it down.
      The test for all of us, is how we are as individuals with God and then how we can deal with the past and be at peace with him and all men. When we get right with God, sweetness instead of bitterness then begins to fill our breasts and we can extend forgiveness to those who personally caused deep offense. The message of Jesus is really beautiful and the grace he extends to each of us today is still available.
      Trust me - I happen to know many of the horrors of being left alone almost overnight, so those same raw emotions have been experienced. However, we have no right to be vengeful or obnoxious. Christ's suffering and horrible death on the cross was more than sufficient justice. His justice is perfect. The world has its justice and rightly so, but the world looks after it own. You are not your own, you have been bought with a price. The death of Jesus was an act of love and justice for all mankind.
      His work therefore has been fully completed and has the power to save us from everything we have ever done. He could have dismissed us for one single sin, but instead he loved us so much and stood in our place.

      When we really go back through our own shameful history and analyse it, there is no way any of us can lay charges against the brethren.
      As I have said, we have to take a look in the mirror and discover our own lack and wrongdoings. All have sinned and come short -
      That includes us. Me and you.

      Last, but not least - There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.
      The test is - Are we with Christ or against him? Do we accept his offer of salvation or are we going to wallow in self justification and hate?
      It has become sadly obvious or self evident that some of the comments on this site are made by persons who have become enemies of the cross of Christ. That's the last thing I want to be.

      Christ has redeemed his people. Reject that and you reject the very foundation of Christianity and become an enemy of the cross of Christ.
      My appeal to everyone in bitterness outside or a few traitors within the PBCC - Don't stoop to treachery. Judas paid the price of treachery. He lost his life for eternity. Our attitude should be like that thief on the cross next to Jesus. He didn't BLAME anyone else for his position, but he pleaded - "Remember me Lord when Thou comest in thy Kingdom"

      It therefore puts everything into prospective and leaves none of us to try to accuse the brethren or anyone else. My words are words of love and are from my own horrific experiences and struggles. I can point to the person of Christ as the remedy to pain or solution to every problem we have. There is also the PBCC website to write to if people have questions or want help.
      Thank you.

      Watalota Tosh

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    12. Joan, I don't think we can impose on the brethren.
      Just as you had and have the liberty of writing to them, they have the right to reply or not reply. It is also a matter of conscience for these people.
      Nobody has forced you to write and so we cannot force or impose that on others.
      From your opening statement, I conclude the PBCC / Garth Christie did acknowledge your initial letter and may have felt it sufficient.
      The brethren are very honest and would not tell you what you want to hear. What gain or profit is there from doing that?
      With all due respect - I think you need to back off from analysing or hanging on every single word people utter or write on blogs because a lot of misinformation is being spread around.
      Take a big pinch of salt and throw it over your shoulder.

      Kind regards,
      Watalota Tosh

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    13. 'there is no way any of us can lay charges against the brethren. '

      Watch this space.

      You think the Brethren have a right to march in on an ex-members funeral and chase mourners away from the graveside? The one chance I had to pay respects to my dear father forever besmirched by the shameful behaviour of PBCC hooligans. Why would I ever forgive that?
      I haven't even had an apology from those responsible.

      As for writing to the PBCC website, every time I make a posting it is deleted. Censorship of speech continues unabated in the PBCC, just like North Korea.

      Is it true that Peter Trevvett has been made Minister of Misinformation?

      Delete
    14. Watalota Tosh,
      Is your real name John Handel, Josephf, Handelj84, Margaret Finch, Granny, Wendy, Peter Trevvett etc, for you all spout the same baseless confusion, twist the Word of God and sycophantically support the PBCC/Exclusive Brethren, despite the fact evidence from the Bible itself, secular, individual & corporate experiences, research, even the Brethrens own documents, ministry, internal letters and treatment of their own members, exposes the so called Exclusive Brethren “position” as a total unbiblical farce ! This is what the Biblical Apostle Paul describes as a “cauterised conscience” (see 1 Timothy 4)

      Watalota Tosh,
      You say “Paul said – “If anyone think to be contentious, we have no such custom. In other words, he took a dim view of schools of opinion, contentious persons and particularly an obnoxious spirit towards the brethren and The Assembly. Do note - I did not say (an assembly)”

      1. You refer to 1 Corinthians 11 v16. In typical Exclusive Brethren manner you take it out of context, using it to try to close down any debate which questions and spotlights any false teaching, (twisting of Gods Word), false doctrine (unbiblical doctrine), false practices (those not authorised by Scripture), and false prophets (those who thought they knew better than Gods Word).

      You would prefer, as PBCC/Exclusive Brethren prefer, to keep quiet about the false teaching they propagate, keep members in ignorance of such false teaching and carry on creating damage, harm and detriment, caused through such false teaching which damages the Body of Christ !

      Yet, all through Biblical Pauline teaching he is passionate how the wider Christian Church, as expressed in local assemblies, should be aware of and guard against such false teaching, encouraging others to speak out and to maintain the doctrine taught in unity and to stay away from those who wish to subvert it.

      The contrast couldn’t be more stark

      2. When the Bible speaks of “Brethren” it’s not uniquely speaking of just the Exclusive Brethren / Plymouth Brethren Christian Church !, it means all believers in Christ, as Brethren, as Brothers & Sisters. The PBCC/Exclusive Brethren have taken on the name “Brethren” to mean it pertains uniquely to them only, which in terms of Biblical truth is pure falsity

      You use the word “the assembly” again, which has already been explained. In the Bible the word “assembly” most often describes a local meeting point or congregation of Christians, in modern language, a local church, its from the Greek word Ekklesia. There are multiple assemblies, as there are multiple local churches across the world, just as in the Biblical Apostle Pauls time. So, “an assembly” is simply a local Christian Church which itself is a local expression of the Body of Christ, the Body of Christ comprises all believers worldwide.

      However, Exclusive Brethren/PBCC often refer to “The Assembly” as differentiated from “an assembly”. In PBCC/EB language they replace the term “One Body” (which is Christ’s universal church), with the term “The Assembly”. This term is simply another way of describing the “One Body”, yet they again arrogate the term “The Assembly”, as pertaining uniquely to themselves which is unbiblical. Exclusive Brethren/PBCC are categorically NOT “The” Body or “The” Assembly !, they are just a good old simple collection of local assemblies which are part of the One Body, or in other words part of The Assembly, the Body of Christ comprising all believers worldwide.

      However, (and this is a key false doctrine of the PBCC/EB), they have chosen to separate from The Assembly, The Body of Christ, (which comprises all believers worldwide), declaring all other Christians in the One Body, The Assembly, as iniquitous and not fit for Christian fellowship !

      This false doctrine is totally against the Biblical apostle Paul’s teaching, yet the PBCC/EB promote themselves to their members as following Pauline teaching !

      Delete
    15. Hello Watalota Tosh,
      From the start this your most recent epistle you start with a quote clearly out of context "If anyone think to be contentious, we have no such custom" which if you read 1 Corinthians 11 is framed in the context of men having long hair and women having their heads covered. Nothing to do with the EB interpretation you've trotted out. It certainly blows your credibility. Well that and the Christianese you trotted out afterwards.

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    16. The joke being that PBCC no longer have to wear a head covering when out and about. An inch wide hair band evidently now suffices. Years and years of basic EB doctrine out of the window. Just give up separation now, you know it's going to happen. Just like the rule changes on fax machines, mobile phones, exhibitions, charity giving, computers, the internet and paper VAT returns.

      I can scarcely believe that one of the last EB academics of his time would stoop as low as being Wotalota Tosh. Do we expect more amazing books? The Travels of Wotalota Tosh? Wotalota Tosh visits Ephesus? Granny and Noddy chemically castrate Big Ears? God forbid that Golly ever marries Tessie Bear. Of course, Bumpy Dog was put down when alcoholic Big Jim said ' no pets'.

      Delete
  3. Hi Laurie,
    I'm a secret admirer of your blog. Love it, love it, love it.
    You keep sticking it up 'em, it's definitely making an impact and will hopefully continue for as many generations as necessary.
    Thanks Laurie, you speak for thousands.

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    Replies
    1. Now Watalota Tosh, do please make sure you fully take-in the context of the above Anonymous comment. I second this person's comment fully, speaking as a broken-hearted leaver who refuses to give up on my people stuck in this cult, after more than two decades.

      Delete
    2. Watalotoftosh, Tosh...Exactly how much context would satisfy you? There's a bit more meat here than one misunderstood text, taken out of context, by the PBCC Ltd to justify decades of abuse.

      #notapublicbenefit

      Delete
  4. In the light of BDH's pronouncement on what happens when you leave, it amazes me that his own father became World Leader after being shunned by the Exclusive Brethren on several different occasions. He also wrote to Mr Deck highlighting the way he had transgressed and sinned against the Brethren.

    Please can someone explain that letter to me, as his son Bruce is revisiting all the things his father JSH allegedly came to a judgement of.

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  5. Whatalotoftosh - is not a Peeb huh? Get outa here! Bruce's comments are black and white - there is no context. It's a complete statement. It requires no context! I wonder what happens to the souls of all those they have thrown out wrongly. Trust me - there's lots of them. Are they not able to be Christians either? This mindset that they are the only true position IS a load of tosh! As I have said plenty of times before- there are billions of Christians in the world. And only 40,000 Peebs. God would deliver better odds than that. Trust me.

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  6. Hey I like Mr Tosh and his latest comment and seems to capture the ideals I also believe in. Some bits are a little confusing to me, but the idea of the forgiveness is really good. Makes sense.

    Wendy

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  7. Watalota Tosh is well named.


    Ricardo

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  8. Watalota Tosh - There's no point in quoting the HEB crap or sticking up for them because according to Beedy - if you've left their group (like you say you have), you're already doomed. Hurry back now - after all your salvation is dependent on it - LOL

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  9. Watalota Tosh, - I find it extremely hard to believe you are not "in". If you are no longer a member of the EB cult and are "out", your statements indicate that you are still brainwashed and need psychological help and counseling.

    As a former member in Australia, I have had first hand experience of their lies and manipulation. To say that these people are honest is far from the truth. They came to me years later to say they wanted to talk and say sorry for the way I was treated. After having the family broken up, saying sorry is not going to fix it.

    When I in the process of parting company with the EB's, I was continuously told that I was "spoiled for the world", I would never fit in and theirs was the only "correct position". I eventually worked out that the phrase "spoiled for the world" meant brainwashed.

    Recently, they have had a turn around regarding the use of "evil" things like mobile phones, computers, fax machines and mobile phones, etc.The excuse for the relaxing of rules is that "the Lord has turned a corner". What a lot of rubbish! I cannot understand how something that was a sin in the past, is now not a sin. I have a close relative that was "dealt with" for having a fax machine but apparently these are ok to use now. Also, my father used to work with computers when I was kid, but had to find other work as working with computers was deemed unacceptable.

    In my humble opinion, the only thing that holds the EB's together is family (the risk of losing your family) and business/money (the risk of losing everything).

    Bruce

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  10. Tosh is in he is a horrible HEB absolutely no doubt!

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  11. I believe tosh is probably the only one who really knows what he is on about....just been reading these posts...And I reackon you people are kinda obsessed about taking the brethren down....if they wanna live their life...And we wanna live ours....that's their choice...not for us to try and take them down continually. Move on.

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