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Tuesday, 24 December 2013

Letter sent to Tim Hibbert (PBCC leader, CEO of Focus Learning Trust's Dunstable campus, and old freind) a month ago to which I've received no response

This will therefore be sent again today copying in various Parliamentarians, the Charity Commission, Garth Christie and Bruce Hazell.

Remembering Garth Christie's famous words to a Parliamentary Select Committee:

"We do not mind any of the questions. We welcome scrutiny, that is not a problem to us. If any of the members have further questions they would like to send in or approach us about, we welcome it. We have nothing to hide. "


Dear Tim,

As per my earlier telephone conversation I would be most grateful if your Church could orchestrate a full and formal audit of detriment and harm caused to ex members.

The following issues affecting PBCC members also need to be addressed at the earliest opportunity:

1.    disruption of loving natural relationships
2.    restriction of education
3.    avoidance of tax
4.    a patriarchal culture that heightens the risk of abuse of low-ranking members such as women and children
5.    financial exploitation of the members by the leadership
6.    suppression of the development of young people’s autonomy and self-determination
7.    infringement of the children’s human rights
8.    promotion of discrimination based on gender, race, sexual orientation and religion
9.    promotion of extreme sectarianism

I trust you can deal with the above or know someone who can?

Best,

Laurie.

8 comments:

  1. Also...Financial loss by way of theft of inheritance, loss of home and employment.

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  2. Also... Flouting of court orders for access/custody to children.
    Also... Infliction of psychological torture during 'assembly' discipline, causing mental distress, breakdowns, attempted suicides, death.

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  3. Laurence M - I doubt the brethren can or will answer a fool according to his folly.
    The best thing you can do is to give up your own self will and look to Christ for salvation. As an ex member, I can say there is absolutely no truth in your statements about the brethren and I think your words show you do not have personal peace with God. If you have peace with God through the work of Christ, you cannot speak or write such thing against the brethren or any other people of faith. None of us are in a position to lay charges or demand answers. Get right yourself and then maybe your voice will be heard. At the moment you're being a fool and making statements that evidently show you are not in the gain of the gospel. The bible is very clear about vindictive or being unforgiving, so I suggest you have a little read and allow it change your bad attitude. You certainly cannot claim to be a Christian if you live a life nursing a grudge or speaking ill of the people who have nothing against you.

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    1. Anonymous,

      I am often puzzled by the tendency of Hales Brethren to deny facts that are well supported by mountains of evidence, as you have done, and their equally frequent habit of making sweeping assertions without seeing the need to provide any evidence at all, even when it is asked for (as in this blog, for example, at http://tinyurl.com/o8rlxfl ). Do they not realise that this destroys their credibility?

      I am puzzled by both these ways of neglecting evidence: ignoring it when it is compelling and failing to realise its importance for establishing facts. Are they simply lying, or are they completely immune to the weight of evidence? Is it a moral failure or is it a failure of logic?

      I wonder if this habitual neglect of evidence arises from years of being trained to accept without evidence everything their leader says, much of which is unsupported by evidence, scripture, reason or anything else.

      I could not from personal experience vouch for the accuracy of every single complaint that Laurie and Nottachurch have made about the Brethren’s practices, but they are all plausible and there are mountains of evidence to confirm the accuracy of most of them. It is puzzling that you appear not to see this. If you have lived among the Brethren as you say, you must have witnessed hundreds or thousands of examples of the kinds of practices that Laurie has listed. I know I have.

      Another puzzling feature of your post, a feature that is also found in Brethren ministry, is the belief that your sect is entitled to exemption from criticism. That seems to me an extremely odd view. How far do you take that principle? How evil can an organisation become before you would agree it is right to call them to account or try to deter further wrongdoing? You say, “you cannot speak or write such thing against the brethren or any other people of faith.” Would you apply the same principle to the Taliban, for instance? Please explain where you get these ideas, which to me seem quite bizarre.

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  4. Ian - If you can't accept my witness, there it ends for you.
    Clearly the Taliban are not a people of faith, rather the complete opposite.
    'People of faith' in the real sense or in the context intended, are those who have faith in the living God. It doesn't matter what Islamic extremists claim. Murderers who claim to have faith or haters of Christianity do not have a place in heaven and God will deal with these people in his own time. They have no link to faith. Nothing 'puzzling' or 'bizarre' about it at all. Persons who attack the brethren or any other people of real faith are showing the same murderous spirit that was demonstrated by the hijackers on 9/11. So I'd urge the likes of Laurie to be careful before making a charge against Christianity. An attack on the brethren is an attack on all Christians, that's clear.

    You speak of 'Mountains of evidence' , but have you or Laurie ever considered the mountains of evidence stacked against yourselves or me? We have all sinned and so God could have rightly dismissed us from his presence for ever. Instead he sent his only son to set us free from sin and the power of sin. None of us are in a position to accuse those who have been redeemed. What gives you the right to accuse when you yourself has been forgiven? Persons who are happy and at peace with God do not have time to write books or accuse. Jesus said - 'To whom who has no sin cast the first stone' or words to that effect. Ever heard about forgiving you enemy? Well, I can assure you the brethren do not hold anything against you or Laurie. Take a look at the mountain of sins in your own life before even thinking of trying to look for fault in others. The brethren may be different from us, but that should not make them a target for people who can't face up to the past. There are many other Christian groups who are also living separate lives and suffering persecution.

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    1. Anon ...Hope you don't think me rude, but you are coming over as a sanctimonious, repetitive bigot. I'm sure the Exclusives (PBCC Ltd) would have you back; can't think why you ever left as you sound like front row material.

      #Notapublicbenefit

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    2. Thank you, Anonymous of 1 January 2014 17:34, for explaining your views. It is useful and healthy to discuss our differences, because that lets us look at everything from other people’s points of view. I posted this earlier, but it seems to have disappeared, so here it is again.

      The Taliban are a religious sect of Sunni Islam, who have vowed obedience to the living God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and have aspirations to bring political systems under theocratic control. Many of them use violence to achieve that end. They would be astounded to hear from you that they are not people of faith, just as much as the Brethren would be if someone said the same about them.

      I am not suggesting that the Brethren are as bad as the Taliban, but I am saying it is a dangerous mistake to exempt religious teachings and practices from criticism just because they claim to be based on faith. Indeed, by far the strongest words of criticism that Jesus ever used in the Gospels were aimed at people who claimed to be upholding their faith (Matthew 23:13-33).

      You appear to have repeated your views on exemption from criticism when you say, “None of us are in a position to accuse those who have been redeemed.” If you take this to its logical conclusion it would imply that Brethren can safely commit whatever crimes they want to, and no-one should complain about it, they should just leave it to God to sort out. That obviously would not be acceptable.

      You say, “An attack on the brethren is an attack on all Christians, that's clear.” I would say this is pretty nearly the opposite of the truth. In order to protect Christianity from being misrepresented and brought into disrepute, it is sometimes necessary to distinguish clearly between the Christianity of the Gospels and the form of religion that the Exclusive Brethren teach and practise.

      I have personally communicated with many ex-EB who have been brought up to believe that Exclusive Brethrenism it is a form of Christianity. Many of them have taken the view (which I can well understand) that if this is Christianity, then it stinks. Indeed, some churches have found it necessary publicly to advertise the fact that they have no connection with Exclusive Brethrenism. And neither they have: most churches are as far removed from Exclusive Brethrenism as day is from night. If we don’t demonstrate that Exclusive Brethrenism is gravely at odds with Christianity, we can only expect that the Christian testimony will be further damaged in people’s perception by being falsely associated with teachings and practices that are immoral and unchristian.

      On a global scale, there are on average about 70,000 people converted to Christianity every day, and I think the Exclusive Brethren’s influence on that number is probably negative. Without them, I think that number would probably be greater. Since about 1960 their net effect in my experience is to turn people away from Christ.

      You are right to emphasise that we have all failed in many ways, and that an attitude of forgiveness is an extremely important core Christian value. However, that does not mean we should do nothing when we see grave wrongs being committed, defended and promoted. Whether we are Christians or not, we have a moral obligation to protect the vulnerable, the gullible and the oppressed. And one way of doing this is to remonstrate with the oppressors and when that is ignored we need to expose their wrongdoing to public scrutiny (Luke 12:2-3).

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  5. You lot really are pathetic. Do you really think the effort that old Lozza goes to on this stupid site really affects the brethren? If you've found peace with God and had your sins washed away in the precious blood of Jesus, it sure doesn't worry you what any ignorant loser wants to rant about.... All the best - sure won't be seeing you in heaven!

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