Tuesday, 17 December 2013

From the recently rehashed PBCC website

The Doctrine of Separation

The PBCC believe that every true believer on the Lord Jesus Christ, every genuine converted person, will be in heaven and our true brethren in Christ.

The principle of separation is practised by all people, nations and religions in some form or other.

The Bible refers to it in many passages – from Genesis chapter 1, where God divided between light and darkness, right through to Revelation chapter 22, where there are those who are within and those who are without.

The Lord Jesus said as to His disciples “they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world” John 17 v14. The world in this sense refers to the system of sin and lawlessness under the domination of Satan.

As a Church, we wholeheartedly seek to dedicate our lives to this principle. We choose to follow the teachings of Jesus as set out in the Gospels and taught in the Epistles of the New Testament. Refer passages such as Matthew 16 v24-26, Mark 10 v28-30, 2 Timothy 2 v19 and 2 Corinthians 6v14-18.

Separation represents a moral distinction between what is right and what is wrong, what is righteous and what is unrighteous. Christians as believers on the Lord Jesus Christ are exhorted to “refuse the evil and to choose the good” Isaiah 7 v15.

We make a commitment to eat and drink only with those with whom we would celebrate the Lord’s Supper – that is the basis of our fellowship.

This does not mean that we hold ourselves as superior to our fellow men, women and children. We live and work harmoniously alongside them, in the mainstream of society.

Our practice of separation does not preclude interaction in the broader community.

We help our neighbours and they help us. We care for and protect their property and they do ours.

We appreciate the good that we receive from many of our fellow citizens, and welcome the opportunity to fulfil our responsibility in the community. Our attitude is to do good to all, as opportunities arise.


  1. As 6th January approaches the Hales Exclusive Brethren must be contemplating (or panicking about) what happens next with regard to the Charity Commission in the UK. Will they be brave (or arrogant) enough to go to tribunal? Will they be realistic (or humble) enough to accept the ruling? Will they apply for a further stay?

    If they request a further stay it may be less likely that their previously stated reason will be believed this time around. They claimed to be struggling to pay the legal fees - but they have since been seen to have enough money to try to bribe those who have the courage to speak the truth about them.

    Perhaps they will rely on their expensive legal team and hope to threaten, break down, or bribe those who witness to the harm and loss caused by them. They will, IMO, be rudely awakened by the quantity and quality of the evidence of harm and loss.

    But my guess is that the Hales EB will elect to go to tribunal, fight it all the way, and not accept the current ruling, ever! I think that they are already preparing for this event by hurriedly padding out their website with plenty of marketing to make them seem normal, caring, and charitable. They have been running around sponsoring park benches, feeding fireman, cutting trees, shovelling snow (and a variety of other high profile giving), and holding open days in their meeting hall car parks to hand out food and bibles to whoever turns up. This is a new initiative that started in 2012, and they have been recording their giving and publicising it ever since. These appear like the actions of a worried bunch of fraudsters who are hoping to pull some wool very soon.

    But the internet is not going away. Witnesses are ready and waiting. Evidence is already piled high. The spread of truth will be very difficult to stop.

    Sadly, the last thing the EB are likely to do is come clean.

  2. If the Hales Exclusive Brethren (re-branded to Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) were really interested in being charitable, these activities would be happening the world over, not just where they need to prove public benefit to continue to have charitable status. Their pathetic attempts are so transparent to those of us who know what they are really about.

  3. Some brief comments on this explanation of separation. To those who know this group, cutting through the lies and smoke screen is very very easy !

    Quote A - “The PBCC believe that every true believer on the Lord Jesus Christ, every genuine converted person, will be in heaven and our true brethren in Christ.”

    In reality the Exclusive Brethren don’t believe that at all !

    If they did, why do they not allow members to have fellowship, communion and worship with any other Christian in any other Christian Church ! It is impossible to hold to the detail & sentiment of Quote A, while also practicing total separation from the whole of the rest of the Christian Church !, unless of course you understand that when they say “every true believer” and “every genuine converted person”, they really mean just themselves.

    Contrast Quote A with the following supposed “Christian ministry” from their leader Bruce Hales –

    But someone that goes out of fellowship and deliberately despises the light of the assembly, they've cut themselves off from the truth, they can't claim to be believers, they can't claim to be real believers, they can't claim to have a real link with Christianity. It's the spirit of apostasy.
    BDH Volume 1, page 74 (Reading in Sydney, 1 February 2002)

    You can only prove that you're a Christian by abandoning the world, there's no proof otherwise, there's no proof at all. You can't claim the shelter of the blood. You go out of fellowship and say you're saved, it means absolutely nothing. Go on in lawlessness, and go out of fellowship, and say now you're free, that's a complete and utter despisal of the blood of Jesus. Your eternal salvation is totally in question, totally and absolutely in question, if you say that you're going to be free by going out of fellowship.
    BDH Volume 35, page 277 (Reading in Sydney, 29 January 2005)

    And if you leave the fellowship you don't have Christianity. I want every young person to understand that here: you give up the fellowship, don't think you can hold on to Christianity. You haven't got it. Young people that give up the fellowship, and turn their back on the fellowship, and leave what they've been brought up in, and leave the position they've been set in, they can't claim Christianity, they can't do it.
    BDH Volume 47, page 208 (Reading in Sydney, 27 January 2006)

    Disclaimer: It is acknowledged that these references were published originally by the Bible and Gospel Trust and are posted here under the international laws which allow any Copyrighted works to be critiqued

    You see, when you really put the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church aka Exclusive Brethren under real scrutiny, their tissue of lies is exposed

    The comment in Quote A is further ripped apart and exposed as a blatant lie when you consider what happens to a person trying to leave the group to go to another Christian Church !. They are excommunicated, shunned, withdrawn from, cut off and declared iniquitous in a twisted application of 2 Timothy 2. How is that practicing what they claim in Quote A !

    In short, it isn’t !

  4. Ummm to put the verse quoted by the EB/PBCC in context:

    Isaiah 7: 14 Therefore will the Lord himself give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and shall bring forth a son, and call his name Immanuel. 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, "that HE [Jesus] (capitals and definition mine) may know to refuse the evil, and to choose the good." 16 For before the child knoweth to refuse the evil and to choose the good, the land whose two kings thou fearest shall be forsaken.

    This Scripture is nothing at all to do with any kind of separation nor is it any command for any of us to do good and not choose evil, it is actually a prophesy about the coming Christ-child by the Prophet Isaiah, and the distinct reference is that Jesus will know to refuse evil and choose good.

    This is what happens when Scripture is quoted out of context and no knowledge of the Bible or historical and cultural context is known by those doing the misquoting.

    And I have not even started on the other texts quoted yet, that is a whole other story and one I will complete another day...

    1. It's so gob-smackingly out of context, even when reading the quaint Darby translation. Are they that stupid, or do they think we are that stupid?

    2. Here are the other references they quote, but from the NIV to make them readable for a modern audience. Even without much exegesis it’s clear they’re not meant in the legalistic way the EB apply them.

      Matthew 16:24-26
      24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, ‘Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?

      Mark 10:28-30
      28 Then Peter spoke up, ‘We have left everything to follow you!’ 29 ‘Truly I tell you,’ Jesus replied, ‘no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields – along with persecutions – and in the age to come eternal life.

      2 Timothy 2:19
      19 Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: ‘The Lord knows those who are his,’ and, ‘Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.

      2 Corinthians 6:14-18
      14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? Or what does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: ‘I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.’ 17 Therefore, ‘Come out from them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.’ 18 And, ‘I will be a Father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.’

  5. Exactly Anon: The reason why I did not comment on the others for now is it requires a reasonably detailed Biblical exegesis, which I do not have time for just now, but thanks for posting the Scriptures themselves.

    Just quickly, from Matt 16:24-26, denying yourself and taking up your cross is nothing to do with separation at all, it involves the daily necessity of giving up every sin IN yourself that is at odds with the new life you have in Jesus, if you want to follow Him, the sinless one... it is a very personal act, nothing at all to do with anyone else except you and Jesus, it certainly does not involve your family! (although the fact that Darby disagreed that Jesus was always without sin is another matter entirely, and one for another time and place).

    From Mark 10:28-30, This was specifically written for the Christians who would be forced out of their own families or out of business, off their land and houses, all for following Christ (as the authorities used to pay bribes for families to give up their Christian members for persecution and incarceration) and also the Martyrs who would follow, in being persecuted even until death for following Christ themselves, those like Perpetua and others like her, who in her case, had to ignore her father's plea's to give up Christ and as a result, lost her family and eventually her life, all to follow Christ.

    It was written to encourage those who were betrayed by their family for following Christ themselves, and it has nothing at all to do with withdrawing from, separating from, distancing from, throwing out, ignoring, or not fellowshipping with your OWN family, who might leave to go to another Christian Church, or join another faith, or even decide to have no faith at all, which is the way EB/PBCC take and enforce it.

    2 Tim 2:19 is self-explanatory, in that the Lord knows those who are His and He does. That does not give the EB/PBCC or any other Christian license to decide and judge who or who not is the Lords, that is the Lords' knowledge alone and for Him to decide on Judgement Day, which is when and only then the final reckoning will come for all the earth. And turning away from wickedness is just that, it means we do not partake in it. If it meant anything else, it would say, "turn away from wicked persons", but it does not. A study of the ancient Greek shows the meaning of the word to be "iniquitious acts", including being unjust and unmerciful!!

    2 Cor 6:14-18 is all about those Christians who were worshipping as Christians and also going to the Pagan Temples to worship idols as well... they were actually attending both churches so to speak, and that was and is still not the actions that are expected from those calling themselves Christian. But, it used to happen all the time and the Bible is full of this, so are the Biblical History books... mainly as these Christians had converted from Pagan religions and often did not see the harm in following both side-by-side. However, Christ demands we follow Him alone, not be involved with other gods, idols, idol worship, demonic religions or anything of that other realm.

    Once again, it is about being separate only from other gods and religions and from worshipping them and their idols, not about being friends with other people who do not believe in Christ, which is why it talks specifically about other gods, idols and not to touch any unclean "thing" (once again going back to the original Greek, this means demonic objects or idols), it does not say unclean people!!

    I hope this explains some of this in more detail, I will do a more thorough Exegesis later, with the Greek words and explanations from Biblical Ancient Language Scholars who have spent their lives studying what the Bible says and means. This is something the EB/PBCC are not allowed to do, and it shows clearing in their constant misinterpretation of the Scriptures.

    God Bless to all, Suzie (Theological Degree Student)