Monday, 4 December 2017

Why Do People Fight Back Against The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church?

Today we see another court case where a man has been wronged by a group of people who profess to be a church. A man who has been driven slowly mad by the injustice of their so called justice. He has lost his job, his home, his wife and his children. It is not the first time it has happened. There are sad men like this all over this planet who slowly gave up the will to fight when the last of their resources were exhausted. They then grew old, never seeing their loved ones again, never knowing about, let alone seeing their grandchildren and great grandchildren and the belief systems that put them in this place go on to destroy yet more lives and families with seeming impunity. There are women in the same position too. 

To understand the cruelty of these actions you need to understand the financial might and power of these organisations and the lengths they will go to, to achieve their aims.

"Find out what they value and protect the most - and then threaten them with losing it." 

You may wonder where such an effective strategy might come from, to protect an organisation from losing its adherents, and while it was the Church of Scientology it may as well be the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church or its predecessor the Exclusive Brethren. Because both use exactly the same methodology to keep people in line and subject to their cause. Let doubt or questioning creep into your thinking - dare to doubt the word of our leader and you will lose everything you have and love. Strangely in Australia at very least, they also share the same enablers, the PR spin doctors who seek to sanitize their beliefs and manufacture reasons for their rights to do what they do. It is why you see the glittering websites with happy smiling faces and tales of the sheer happiness and completeness of their Christian or Science-fiction based lives. Two groups of 40-50,000 people who have been allowed to get what they want in life without a Judge standing up and saying NO! Or ENOUGH! 

It is why today my friends, the Brethren and the Scientologists are allowed to destroy families and it is also why they both enjoy the massive benefits of Tax Exemption because they call themselves 'A CHURCH'. Their sense of entitlement and contempt for human rights is simply breathtaking. 

If you want to keep people in a bubble - you must limit their exposure and contact with 'outsiders'. 

In these two racially opposed organisations, we see the identical strict policies and systems of shutting their followers off from the world and from free thinking. Indeed, free thinking is a sin in the Brethren. They don't like people who think too much. They love people who do as they are told. If you let them mix freely with worldly people, other ideas may be absorbed. Special friendships may ensue. Which is why in 1959, the Brethren introduced a new policy of complete separation from the World. No contact meant no influences that might be contrary to their tightening belief system. It is why they don't go to universities anymore. Hot beds of free thought. Cesspools of social engineering. 

This also highlights the dual strategy of a continuous monthly diet of 'ministry', which is designed to keep people's minds on track and in line. Bruce Hales is no different from L. Ron Hubbard, the most prolific of authors, in metering out his pay-as-you-go belief (rules) system and stressing people's adherence to it. 

They love to emphasize the consequences of your non compliance if you dare to try it out- the loveless, homeless, family-less, job-less, asset-less wilderness you will enter. A cold dark place of nothing. And to legitimise it, they also tell you that you are now evil and God-less. An 'Opposer'. A 'Suppresive'. An 'Apostate.'

Christianity in the Brethren involves the constant threat of hell. The constant references to the penalties of non-compliance. Threaten people and they will comply. They then add to this by being made to believe that they are in the only right 'spiritual' or 'aware' place on earth and that all others are in whirlpool of darkness. Which is silly on several levels. 

Which raises the question as to why some choose to fight them. Both of these so called 'churches' are either instigating law suits or responding to them because they like to hurt people. 

They destroy people. When someone is in the midst of having their lives destroyed they want to fight back. They have nothing to lose. They are out of options.

Forget the genuinely evil buggers that inhabit these sorts of cults - indeed who inhabit any walk of life. The rapists. The child molesters. The embezzlers. The wife beaters. The murderers. Both of these organisations, if not all cults, have a small percentage of these creeps as every societal demographic does. 

But they also have their spies and the lovers of disunity, the lovers of finding things out that will hurt people and throw doubt on their existence. They love to periodically delve into people's lives to find something. Anything that will bring them undone. In the Brethren they call these instances 'purges'. In the Church of Scientology they call it an 'audit'. The only people that do not purge are those leaders that are inherently dishonest or the leaders themselves. Their leaders in both instances are bulletproof. Incapable of wrong doing or sin. They even say so. But the rest of them are fair game. And that means they can be undone for a wayward comment or a thought in a heartbeat.

So there you are with your young family, trying to be a good 'Christian' in the remarkably competitive world of the Brethren, when someone decides that you should be taken down. They go after you in a one sided explosion of vindictiveness and anti-Christian activity that results in you being thrown out before you can even utter a squeak in your defense. Your wife has been distanced from you and your kids shuttled to relatives or friends. You are told that if you want to come back you need to 'get right'. While you endeavour to make out the formula of this prescribed 'getting right' procedure, you have also lost your job because they have been clever. You are only allowed to work for 'them' which means they can get rid of you real fast when they no longer want you. 

So now you are living in 'digs' for the first time in your life, with no wife, no kids and no job. At this point they also emphasize that if you do not support your wife and kids, they will hound you through the courts until you do. This generally means that any funds you do have available are handed over as well. 

Then comes the total shutdown. Phone calls are not answered or returned. Visits will see the door shut in your face. Pleas for a reasonable discussion are rejected. You are out. And they have everything that was yours. Your kids are now being told that you are wicked and very probably the devil himself. In more extreme cases they even put private detectives on your tail hoping to find you out with anything they can call a sin. Be seen talking to another woman and you are an adulterer. Be seen in an hotel and you are a drunkard. Be seen at a tourist attraction and you have 'embraced the world'. All of which justifies their 'withdrawal' action in the first place. 

If you find yourself in this 'dark' place, as indeed most of us have, a few things happen to you. There are phases to this type of cruelty. First off you just try to regroup and to survive. It's not an easy process. You are on your own for the first time in your life. Your family wants nothing to do with you. You know very little about the real world which you are now up to your armpits in and you have no friends. You are alone. Which is why many simply commit suicide. Others become severely depressed at the loss of their marriages and their children. Indeed, this is the most impactful of all of the consequences you will endure. It is the cruellest of all punishments. It goes against the most powerful attractions in your life. 

Yet the Brethren metre this sort of treatment out to people and have done so for over 58 years. Fight them and they will roll out a procession of Queen's Counsellors that will make your head spin. They will spend millions through their fighting funds to grind you down to nothing. (Another similarity between the two cults.) And all you will be left with is a legal bill you cannot afford. Many of these men have spent their entire life savings trying to win some sort of custody of their kids. They have won in the past, but by now the children are brainwashed to hate them. So it never happens. 

Then there are those who were thrown out for nothing. They had actually done nothing wrong. They have been placed in this situation by an over-zealous power seeker or someone who is suspicious to their core. If you are a 'Scientologist' or a 'Brethren' this simply does not matter. You are the enemy and they will fight you to the death to prove it. They will destroy you. And yet some still try to win against them. And the courts try to get their head around what it all means. 

And when these sorts 'Churches' win they shout their victories from the rooftops and praise God for his support of their causes. But what they do breaks every rule in the book. Every Christian rule and every human decency. And judges still wrestle with the concept of real truth and justice.

Sunday, 3 December 2017

Monday 4th December 2017 in The High Court at The Royal Courts of Justice

I’m to be sentenced tomorrow in Court 8 of the High Court at The Royal Courts of Justice ‪at 1030GMT‬ it’s a public Court and all are welcome.

It’s likely if the applicants Universal Business Team aka The Plymouth Brethren Christian Cult have their way I will be sentenced to 24 months in HMP Pentonville-this will allow me some needed time to finish my book(s)😊

Any small contribution towards my ongoing collossal personal costs (which so far have all been footed by me) would be gratefully received these can be paid directly to my Paypal account which is😊

Here’s a link to costs for Friday

Saturday, 2 December 2017

Jonestown Cult Massacre

Jonestown survivor Deborah Layton wrote:

When our own thoughts are forbidden, when our questions are not

allowed and our doubts are punished, when contacts and friendships

outside the organization are censored, we are being abused for an

end that never justifies its means. When our heart aches knowing we

have made friendships and secret attachments that will be forever

forbidden if we leave, we are in danger. When we consider staying in

a group because we cannot bear the loss, disappointment and sorrow

our leaving will cause for ourselves and those we have come to love,

we are in a cult.

Seductive Poison. New York: Anchor Books. 1998, page 299

Behind the Exclusive Brethren

This is a simple link

given with express permission by the Author Michael Bachelard to an informative, well researched, factual and referenced book about the Exclusive Brethren aka Plymouth Brethren Christian Church.

Jehovah’s Witnesses v Exclusive Brethren

Why Did It All Change So Dramatically?

I had an old mate on the blower this morning. He was somewhat distressed at the massive new focus and impetus of developing big business in the Brethren world. It has become an all consuming quest as they grow their global empires beyond anything ever witnessed before. Rumour has it they even have blue chip office addresses in the Sydney heartland where a square metre of office space costs $855.90 per month, to give them that added credibility in worldly eyes. 

Their world was supposed to be one of humility, simple service and faith observance. It wasn't that Brethren people did not have large or successful businesses in the past so much, as the Sydney led emphasis on business these days, which is almost all consuming in the Brethren today, as they vie to be successful and therefore on the radar of the great man in Ermington. 

This I told him, as my mind raced for possible reasons, is down to the leader himself, as he tries to legitimize the church in the eyes of the world. He wants to appear 'normal'. In fact he wants to be more than normal. His brother has gone as far as to admit publicly to all sorts of world embracing normality including having Baptist friends and to being so normal when compared to worldly people, you would not pick him in a line up. The truth is, decision makers in the world do not take any notice of poor or below average business people. Get wealthy and the doors start to open for you. It ever was thus. Money talks. 

The question is why? 

The answer is easy, but duplicated in its roots. First off, there is the perennial problem of the Hales loving wealth and success. A bit like the Trumps. Hales likes winners. His father liked winners and his Uncle liked winners. When they were young, as 35 year olds and in their ascension period, they would publicly and automatically discount anyone who was not successful in business. They had plans to make the Brethren and themselves rich at the time. 

This as we know was damned by Taylor who was between a rock and a hard place - with the hard line right Brethren objecting to this type of behaviour because it sets brother against brother and sister against sister. It creates an internal class system. Worse, it goes against Christ and his example. 

My friend was nodding sagely at this point I would imagine, but having whipped me up into a state of high excitement, I went on. When I was a kid, I said, some brethren had beach houses. At beach resorts. I remember these because I spent most of my childhood summers enjoying the beach house hospitality of several well heeled brethren, which had another added benefit. While on holiday at your beach house, it being the holiday season, you did not have to attend any church unless it was the supper. So the beach was the place to be. Sunny days, swimming, eating and lazing about with no boring church and no rules.

Guess what! Today the Brethren are allowed to have beach houses again! 

An expensive undertaking in this part of the world. Even a bog ordinary beach house here will set you back a million. The leader in Melbourne, as an example of this new thinking (the 20 year Wilderness survivor - who went from feather duster to rooster -or goose even - in one easy move) has a beach house, to wind down from his business interests and to soak up some of the profits of his highly successful business empires, which were developed with the help of his mate in Sydney. 

It won't be long before Hales will be setting up a new assembly in Byron Bay or Bateman's Bay. And you can bet who will have a new house on the point looking across one of God's most magical sights- the Pacific Ocean. 

Thirty years ago they were throwing people out of their midst for going anywhere near a beach. Go figure. 

So when my mate asks why, I say because they are now a whole new ballgame. Brash, litigious, wealthy, demanding, entitled, benefiting from the filthy lucre of evil worldly taxpayers, on first name terms with Prime Ministers, decision makers and people to be reckoned with. 

They are on Facebook, have sparkling new websites, they tweet, Instagram and use every worldly means to further their business ambitions. They go nowhere without their mandatory Blackberries or tablets. They are a tech savvy global commercial enterprise. They go to China to do business despite there being no meeting there (a real no no in my day) they comb the globe for opportunity and best price and bolster up their networks to slay their worldly opposition. They even have UBT heavies and operatives come into each other's businesses to keep an eye on profits and practices. All of which is surely reported back to the big man in Sydney. This way when he needs another million for something or other, he knows exactly who to ring to get it. And they say - What an honour to be asked! It's a magnificent system! A thing of great fiscal beauty. 

Sure they destroyed people over silly rules that are now common practice among them. Sure they destroyed families as well. Sure they deprived people of their birthrights internationally so they hung on to every cent they could. Sure they branded people as evil and wicked and satanic and opposers. But look at the harvest they now enjoy. Look at what they have reaped. (Look at who they have raped?)

Don't be downhearted by fellow ex-Peeb friends. You gave your birthright so that others can live in luxury. You gave so that their wives can spend like drunken sailors. You gave so that they can drive expensive European cars and enjoy private jet travel. You gave so that they can enjoy private schooling and their own insurance, mortgage and business start up schemes. You gave that they may live! You gave so that they can live like kings!

Friday, 1 December 2017

The Farce

The address books in question-namely the Australian & Uk ones hold contact details which are all in the Public domain-why the secrecy-why spend over a million quid chasing an insignificant bloke through the Courts when all this information is on the electoral roll anyway?

Clearly the Plymouth Brethren Christian Church aka UBT have something to hide?

Perhaps they don’t like former shunned members contacting their own families who they’ve not seen for years?

The crazy thing is that disaffected current members hand out these books like sweets-there are lots of sets in circulation-there’s moles at UBT and the Depot BGT who post me latest copies regularly!

I’ve not seen my youngest son Freddie for nearly 10 years-purely because the PBCC leader Hales decrees that I’m the Devils agent and the man of sin😊

UBT’s Johnny Rotten Plays Billiards-not of The pocket version on this occasion

Today at The Royal Courts of Justice MoffittvUniversal Biscuit Tin-it’s a Public Court-All are Welcome

The Royal Courts of Justice, Court 8


Friday 1 December 2017

At 10:30 AM



(a limited company incorporated under the laws of Australia)


(a limited company incorporated under the laws of England)

(3) X1

(4) X2

(5) X3

(6) X4

(7) X5

(the third to seventh claimants suing in a representative capacity for all individuals named in the “UK & Ireland address book 2015” and the “Australia address book 2015”)




Thursday, 30 November 2017

Johnny Rotten Head of UBT Surveillance

This nasty piece of work is global head hacker for The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church aka Universal Business Team, he likes to hide under a whiskey barrel but his gut sadly still hangs over his Farah’s😊bit like Frank’s...

He under Hales instruction appears to be directing the lates attack from The USSR!

We (The Plymouth Brethren Christian Church) are Above The Law and furthermore are The Highest Court in The Land

Rather an ambitious statement don’t you think?

OK, here are nine quotations from EB ministry, all saying that the EB assembly is the highest court in the land (or the universe).

J. Taylor Sr. New Series Vol. 6 page 378

J.T. His body is brought in because Christ is to be expressed, but I think we ought to note the word "assembly". It is a company capable of intelligently giving the mind of God on any question that may arise in the universe. It will be the highest court of appeal in the coming age.

J. Taylor Sr. New Series Vol. 8 page 229

A.N.W. I suppose the assembly is the highest court of appeal in the universe.

J.T. It is morally, the spiritual man knows no other really.

J. Taylor Sr. New Series Vol. 76 page 289

J.McK. The assembly is like the highest court. It is the final matter.

Letters of J. Taylor Sr. Vol. 2 page 234

The judgment of a secular court is not enough to establish righteousness or unrighteousness. The assembly is the highest court morally and the facts of a case should be adjudicated by it and its judgment of a matter within its locality should be accepted by all others unless there is the clearest evidence of wickedness in the proceedings.

J. H. Symington Vol. 104 page 188 (Westfield, March 1982)

I thought these scriptures might afford help to understand assembly administration. The highest court at the present time, I think, is the assembly. As assembly persons, if we are that, matters ought to be resolved in the assembly. We have, of necessity, been brought before judges in other connections. We’ve found the unjust judge. It’s clearly beneath the dignity of brethren to pursue their matters before the unjust judge and not before the assembly. It would be in the area of God’s indirect government, whereas in the assembly it’s the area of His direct government.

B. D. Hales Vol. 6 page 297 (Sydney, 26 June 2002)

But the assembly is the highest court, the assembly has really got the right to pronounce on any matter.

B. D. Hales Vol. 10 page 85 (Melbourne, 13 October 2002)

we don’t need crown prosecutors in the assembly, this is the highest court, this is the highest court. See, that’s what our beloved brother used to labour at

B. D. Hales Vol. 16 page 35 (Sydney, 12 April 2003)

The devil is at our households, trying to get in, he is at us all the time. Whether we can see that if I take measures, whether young persons can see the advantage of taking measures ahead of something disastrous happening. See, some terrible things have happened in these motor vehicle accidents, young brothers getting jail sentences, it's a frightening matter. Our beloved brother [John S Hales] used to tell us, didn't he, he said when you're caught out, he said ignorance is no plea. Can't exactly expect to get mercy in the judicial system. Of course, the assembly is the highest court, so that's a matter that we can take comfort in. It's a very great matter, I think, to know that this place, the assembly, is the highest court. It's the area of God's direct dealings, and it's got the power to overrule other judgements if there's a righteous basis for it. 

B. D. Hales Vol. 32 page 12 (Sydney, 5 September 2004)

Any poor fellow in the dock could appeal to God to come in for him, take up his case. But it’s not a very pleasant experience to appear in the courts of this world, we wouldn’t want any young people to get there. We’ve been enough times there. But to come into the assembly, and get your matters settled here, this is the highest court.


Hales Sanctioned Chemical Castration of Gays

Exclusive Brethren GP banned for prescribing gay 'cure'

Louise Hall

Sep 5, 2012

Chemical castration ... the drug Cyprostat was prescribed to cure a gay man's homosexuality. Photo: Michel O'Sullivan

A SYDNEY doctor who is a member of the Exclusive Brethren Christian sect has been banned from practising as a GP after he prescribed chemical castration to a young man who sought a ''cure'' for homosexuality.

Mark Christopher James Craddock, 75, wrote the 18-year-old patient a script for the anti-androgen therapy cyproterone acetate (Cyprostat) during a 10-minute consultation in his home in February 2008.

The patient, who cannot be named for legal reasons, was at the time a member of the Exclusive Brethren church.

In a letter of complaint to the Health Care Complaints Commission, the patient said when, at the age of 18 he came out as gay, a church leader told him, ''there's medication you can go on''. ''He recommended that I speak to Dr Craddock on the matter with a view to my being placed on medication to help me with my 'problem','' the New Zealand resident said.

Dr Craddock gave him a prescription for Cyprostat as well as five repeats. The drug, which lowers libido by reducing the amount of testosterone, is used to treat prostate cancer and severe male sexual disorders and sexual deviation.

In a hearing before the professional standards committee of the Medical Council of NSW in June, Dr Craddock admitted he did not obtain a medical history, conduct a physical examination, take an adequate sexual history or arrange a follow-up appointment.

He did not refer the patient to a counsellor or a psychologist, despite the drug manufacturer's recommendation, and did not order a liver test or discuss the side effects, which include impotence.

Dr Craddock conceded it was potentially dangerous for a patient to have that much medication unsupervised. He said, in hindsight, he should not have prescribed it at all.

Wednesday, 29 November 2017

David & Goliath 1 Samuel 17 v 40-58 KJV

“And he took his staff in his hand, and chose him five smooth stones out of the brook, and put them in a shepherd's bag which he had, even in a scrip; and his sling was in his hand: and he drew near to the Philistine. And the Philistine came on and drew near unto David; and the man that bare the shield went before him. And when the Philistine looked about, and saw David, he disdained him: for he was but a youth, and ruddy, and of a fair countenance. And the Philistine said unto David, Am I a dog, that thou comest to me with staves? And the Philistine cursed David by his gods. And the Philistine said to David, Come to me, and I will give thy flesh unto the fowls of the air, and to the beasts of the field. Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the Lord of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied. This day will the Lord deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcases of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel. And all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the Lord's, and he will give you into our hands. And it came to pass, when the Philistine arose, and came and drew nigh to meet David, that David hasted, and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine. And David put his hand in his bag, and took thence a stone, and slang it, and smote the Philistine in his forehead, that the stone sunk into his forehead; and he fell upon his face to the earth. So David prevailed over the Philistine with a sling and with a stone, and smote the Philistine, and slew him; but there was no sword in the hand of David. Therefore David ran, and stood upon the Philistine, and took his sword, and drew it out of the sheath thereof, and slew him, and cut off his head therewith. And when the Philistines saw their champion was dead, they fled. And the men of Israel and of Judah arose, and shouted, and pursued the Philistines, until thou come to the valley, and to the gates of Ekron. And the wounded of the Philistines fell down by the way to Shaaraim, even unto Gath, and unto Ekron. And the children of Israel returned from chasing after the Philistines, and they spoiled their tents. And David took the head of the Philistine, and brought it to Jerusalem; but he put his armour in his tent. And when Saul saw David go forth against the Philistine, he said unto Abner, the captain of the host, Abner, whose son is this youth? And Abner said, As thy soul liveth, O king, I cannot tell. And the king said, Enquire thou whose son the stripling is. And as David returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, Abner took him, and brought him before Saul with the head of the Philistine in his hand. And Saul said to him, Whose son art thou, thou young man? And David answered, I am the son of thy servant Jesse the Beth–lehemite.”

‭‭1 Samuel‬ ‭17:40-58‬ ‭KJV‬‬

PBCC/Hales Exclusive Brethren /UBTvMoffitt in The High Court on Friday 1st December 2017

This will be interesting-(all are welcome)-the Press and TVCrews are primed and ready-BDH and his Spokesmen are jointly and severally adamant that they and their policies of separation are right and Lawful.

Come let us scrutinise together.

My blog will be ‘managed’ and I may be granted some quiet time to finish my book😊

Monday, 27 November 2017

Denial Hales 


I found the exchange below very enlightening, because one of the things that shocked me out of my comfortable hereditary "faith" in the EBs was their willingness to lie to "outsiders". I had assumed that this was a sin of the lower ranks, and not officially sanctioned - until October 2008 when Daniel Hales gave a radio interview, the transcript of which was widely but covertly circulated amongst EBs. We later heard that BDH was very angry that the transcript had been "leaked" - I wonder if even he was a bit shocked at the blatent lies his brother was so glibly putting out.

Where did BDH say it's fine to lie to your 'enemies'?

This was said publicly during a reading by a Coventry brother who had been with BDH. I thought it was said publicly by BDH but this brother was likely to have been in the house with BDH, therefore hearing many things not actually said in public by BDH. But the brother was quite free to reiterate BDH's statement in public when back in the UK.

I have found the transcript online, and cut and pasted below some excerpts containing statements by Daniel Hales that anyone inside the EBs would know are utterly false.

PG: Led by your brother.

DH: Led by… Each assembly is totally autonomous; each assembly has its own meetings and its own responsibilities.  

PG: Garage door openers were disallowed at one point, because they use radio waves?

DH: That’s one of the many myths, Peter, I’m afraid.

PG: Yep?

DH: Unfortunately because we’ve tended to live to ourselves, live quietly and not seek to justify ourselves, there’s been some terrible malicious slanderous malevolent things said about us. That’s why I’m talking to you.

PG: Thank you. Daniel Hales from the Exclusive Brethren here on the evening show 891ABC. The Exclusive Brethren began to advertise politically in 2004, in that election. Now, you don’t vote, as is your right; you’re excluded from voting on religious grounds. Many would find this strange, Daniel, that whilst you don’t want to directly influence the democratic process with a vote which is every Australian’s right, you still want to influence the process in a ‘paid’ way.

DH: Thank you Peter for that opportunity to clear up another myth! The church itself is not involved in any advertisements, any political work, political activity, of any side, of any party, at all.

PG: But members are?

DH: Individual members act on their own individual rights within the law, to do what any individual member would feel right to do. As would my friends in the local Baptist church: they would do various political things - that isn’t labeled against the church!

PG: But is it approved, by the church?

DH: It’s not anything to do with the church.

PG: So your brother had no knowledge of these advertisements?

DH: My brother did not instigate, set on, or have anything to do with the advertisements…

PG: But did he know about them?

DH: I don’t know what he knew and what he didn’t know, Peter.

PG: Did you? Do you approve of them?

DH: I don’t know of them. I knew one or two individuals had… after the event I knew they’d gone to the trouble of putting a little ad in the paper or do something; I said that was their own morals, that was their own exercise, that was their independent right and I couldn’t adjudicate on that, Peter.


PG: Now it’s alleged - not just by him but by others - that women have a lesser role in your church. For example: in their work, they can’t have authority over men; they can’t speak in your church services. Is this true, Daniel?

DH: Not at all, Peter.  


DH: No, no, no, they wouldn’t learn too much! Not at all - it would just draw them apart, from the lifestyle to which they’ve been accustomed. And, I add, if they want to make that decision that would be totally their decision. If one of my children had decided he wanted to go to university, I would care for him, and nurture it, and I would hover round him; he would ever be my son, they would ever be my daughter.

PG: But he wouldn’t be excommunicated?

DH: He wouldn’t be excommunicated for going to university, no, but he would gradually find himself being drawn away and he probably would not want to continue with the two lifestyles. 


PG; What about the doctrine of excommunication, Daniel Hales? People are excommunicated from your church and people are shut up, aren't they?

DH: People are suspended from membership, certainly, if they've committed some crime or there was something in the eyes of the law or for some reason there was

PG: Or they offended rules of the church?

DH: Normally, they wouldn't – I'm passing my mind back over Sydney, because once again, Peter, the churches are autonomous, every assembly, small or large looks after its own matters .   

*What Id like to add here, Peter, is that when people make a conscious decision, especially young people, to leave our church, they don't want to come back next week to Sunday lunch and bring their new friends to meet mom and dad. That's chosen (?). .

PG: But what if they do?

DH: They would gladly meet them but what I'm saying is what they are doing is when they are going away from it is they're wanting to get life in the fast lane, they're wanting the high life, their wanting a completely different lifestyle. It's not until 20 or 30 years later that they cast a nostalgic look over their shoulder.


PG: Can you explain the concept of spoiling the Egyptians, Daniel Hales?

DH: (Chuckling) I did hear from someone else that that had come up in one radio interview, but that's a very obscure reference from the bible, as you probably know, relating to our Jewish brethren when they left Egypt thousands of years ago. I don't think I've ever been to a bible reading or listened to a sermon in all my years amongst the brethren at which that verse, that text, has been read, Peter.  


PG: Did you ever meet the Prime Minister, John Howard?

DH: I've never met the Prime Minister, no.

PG: Your brother has.

DH: I met him maybe 10 or 15 years ago when he was not even a leader of the opposition. I'm in his electorate – I live in Bennelong and I met him on the hustlings (he really says hustlings!) as any one of tens of thousands of people might.

PG: You were sorry to see him go?

DH: No, no, I thought it was time for a change, Peter, time for a change.